Author Topic: 48 V 1000 W electric bike hub motor wind turbine... (Read 19695 times)

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **on:** February 07, 2010, 07:31:49 AM »

Has anyone tried to do this? My brackets should be done soon and I'll add a pic with the blades attached. My main problem is how do I attach this to the tower. All I have to mount the motor with is a 1/2" stud with the wires coming out of it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

taylorp035 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 07, 2010, 08:56:47 AM »

What is the rpm/ volt ratio?

Norm · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2010, 11:53:46 AM »

All I have to mount the motor with is a 1/2" stud with the wires coming out of it.

Not too much of a problem as long as the stud

has at least 1/2 inch of threads or more.....

take a small square plate drill a 1/2 hole in

the center....nut, washer,plate,washer,nut.

Drill holes in the plate so you can bolt it to the

2x4 or whatever you have for the piece that

attaches to the other end of the tail boom.

Yes, I think that Ben (Gotwind) has done quite

a few of them.

Google Gotwind should get you to his site.

Jon Miller · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2010, 12:08:27 PM »

Hi there, this will work, you can buy a turbine called http://www.futurenergy.co.uk/ which is based around a 500 watt e-bike hub.

the 1kW motor would be a good candidate but you will need a 48 volt system to get the best out of it.

Regards

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2010, 02:29:45 PM »

Well with my calculations with a belt and my drill, at around 380 rpm open circuit voltage is 38vcd and short circuit current is 38 amps.... it all seems so linear it's crazy...

Great Idea on the mounting... that will work perfectly, now I need to figure out furling.

GOTWIND huh?? That's funny i work on the large commercial GE 1.5 MW wind turbines here in IOWA and i have a sticker with 3 turbines on it that says GOT WIND?

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2010, 02:32:47 PM »

OK I'll try this again... sorry first time using this type of forum. so this is basically a double post..

Well with my calculations with a belt and my drill, at around 380 rpm open circuit voltage is 38vcd and short circuit current is 38 amps.... it all seems so linear it's crazy...

Great Idea on the mounting... that will work perfectly, now I need to figure out furling.

GOTWIND huh?? That's funny i work on the large commercial GE 1.5 MW wind turbines here in IOWA and i have a sticker with 3 turbines on it that says GOT WIND?

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2010, 02:42:49 PM »

I don't like how you can't edit on here... 38vcd... is 38vdc... anyways... here are my other parts of this wind turbine system

Xantrex C40 with display and battery temp

Xantrex Prosine 24v 1800watt Inverter

2 - marine 12v 'deep cycle' batteries in series with 125AH (FOR NOW) I want 8 U2200 batteries.. $$$$

1 Farad LCD readout Capacitor for between the batteries and Inverter

Colman Air 75amp 3phase AC to DC diode block

6800uF Capacitor for between the wind turbine diode block and charge controller

Bussman DC 50amp breaker

I'm also going to make my own solar panels - around 160 watts worth to supplement the system

Jon Miller · « **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2010, 02:59:49 PM »

'linear it's crazy'

DC motors are like that. Seems like you might be onto a winner there.

What voltage do you want your system to be?

12 volts would be around (380RPM / 38VDC) =1 volt every 10RPM

12V = 120RPM

24V = 240RPM

48V = 480RPM

These speeds will be a bit higher to over come battery voltage being slightly higher (~13.8volt for '12volt'), diode forward bias and cable resistance.

Sounds like a high solidarity blade would be good on this say five blade. Do you have a lathe, a tachometer and some car light bulbs?

Regards

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2010, 03:16:48 PM »

I'm going for a 24v system, as my inverter is 24. I have 6 of those air X 28" blades, the link should work in my first post, I'm waiting for the brackets to be done and then I'll put a picture on here with blades mounted. I have available any tools out there... my brackets are being made on a CNC plasma cutter... I don't know what the voltage is with a load as of yet, assuming it wont drop below 24 at 300-400 RPM... I'd like to get a Tachometer but am not sure what to use... a bike TACH maybe? and a dump load will be a water heater or a relay off the charge controller that powers a cheap inverter that will always be hooked up to a oil filled space heater in winter, or a fan in the summer... not worried about those details until they come... I first have to get this thing built.

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #9 on:** February 07, 2010, 03:18:34 PM »

Does anybody know how fast these AIR X blades will go in a given wind speed when the motor has no load? I can't find that info anywhere!!

Jon Miller · « **Reply #10 on:** February 07, 2010, 03:23:15 PM »

The air X blades are unsuitable for the motor I am afraid, you need much lower speed and higher torque rather then low torque high speed as the air X type is.

Where in the world are you?

you could make some blades from pipe that would do the job.

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #11 on:** February 07, 2010, 03:42:31 PM »

I'm in Iowa with utility Wind Turbines all around me...

I'm planning on using 6 blades to get more torque and less speed, I can always make blades but I got these CHEAP off ebay and figured why not, I can always sell them and make a profit if they don't work. My main concern is the blade brackets, It took me a great while with emachineshop's software to make this bracket to exact size, the problem is I have to have 3 or 6 blades not 5... witch some people say is best.... I will start to work on my motor bracket hopefully tonight and put that on here... I really just need help with furling or some way to prevent over speed with this motor... I'm hoping with the 50+ magnets in it that I can simply short it out to slow it down... maybe not tho..

Perry1 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 07, 2010, 03:52:32 PM »

OK Mr GE Wind. Shouldn't you be entering a PAC case to get these answers?

Inside joke, know one else will get it.

Perry

ghurd · « **Reply #13 on:** February 07, 2010, 03:56:13 PM »

TSR is more far complicated than that.

Only the sellers claim 6 is better than 3. The designers will not claim that.

G-

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #14 on:** February 07, 2010, 04:15:57 PM »

lol, It seems these homemade wind turbines are a lot harder than a GE 1.5.....

Perry1 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 07, 2010, 04:24:26 PM »

Yeah, just because you never have to change yaw pucks on them.

Perry

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #16 on:** February 07, 2010, 04:30:44 PM »

hahaha... luckly I've never been O & M ... I have done 8 yaw pucks and highly don't reccomend that.

Norm · « **Reply #17 on:** February 08, 2010, 10:14:12 AM »

I don't like how you can't edit on here

That teaches one to not be too hasty in

posting....

preview and edit before posting.....

it's like carpentry....measure twice and cut

once LOL !

Ungrounded Lightning Rod · « **Reply #18 on:** February 08, 2010, 06:24:26 PM »

Voltage and short circuit current bloody well OUGHT to be linear functions of RPM - for RPMs low enough that the generator's inductance is small compared to the circuit's resistance.

ghurd · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2010, 08:18:09 AM »

That makes 12V cut in at about 140RPM.

Those Air-X type blades are designed for a lot more RPM before cut in, and I expect they will stall.

G-

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2010, 07:44:45 AM »

I have received my Xantrex C40 charge controller but I'm not understanding how this is going to work... My wind turbine hooks directly up to the batteries?

and then when it has an over voltage it diverts the excess power to my diversion load.... I don't see that happening.. I've done a bench test with a 24v power supply and it indeed turns on the diversion load when over my set point but still makes my battery very hot and when it reads 18v at the battery it makes me worry...... Can somebody explain how this is suppose to work??? I can see if it is hooked up with the charge controller between my turbine and the batteries but straight to them???

ghurd · « **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2010, 09:13:23 AM »

The dump load is not big enough.

The dump load must use more power than the turbine (or power supply) can make.

If the dump load is too small, say it uses 6A, and the turbine (or power supply) can make 15A, then the battery is still being charged with 9A.

The C-series is slow to react. On a bench, with a small battery and large power supply, it could over voltage the batteries for a while (I hear from 30 to over 60 seconds) before turning on the dump load.

In a real working system, your results would indicate the battery is far too small,

and the dump load too.

If you can adjust the amps from the power supply, set the amps at 50% of what the dump load uses, and the results will be more like they should be.

Easier to use a small (6 or 10A) battery charger to get things adjusted.

G-

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #22 on:** February 13, 2010, 12:23:47 PM »

Yeah that makes sense and with what I was testing with was a 24v computer fan as a dump load and using a tiny 12v ups battery. It seemed to react in about 1-2 seconds so basically instantly. Ok so basically in high winds if i have a huge dump load then it wont really charge my batteries it will actually use some power from them and and all of what my turbine produces... I think this is a very bad design, It just doesn't make sense to me that you would have something like that... I'll never get my batteries charged then.... unless I'm again missing something... there is no way the wind will be at the sweet spot, I was under the impression that once your batteries are charged then it will swap to the diversion load.. not stay hooked up to the batteries and turn on the diversion load... that just seems stupid..

anyways... here is a design I've came up with for my turbine

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/4439/scannedimagea.jpg

click on image to zoom in.

I'm using NEO magnets for my yaw... the picture isn't labeled but i think you can figure it out.

ghurd · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2010, 12:56:54 PM »

You are thinking about it all wrong. It is not exactly accurate to consider it on or off.

It happens VERY quickly. "PWM". In fact, it happens so quickly a meter on the dump load may read a fairly steady 5V (depending on the wind, etc). It is switching hundreds of times per second.

Even my little 'ghurd controller' keeps the battery voltage rock solid if tested with a standard volt meter.

"I was under the impression that once your batteries are charged then it will swap to the diversion load.. "

That is a terrible design, and it will result in failure.

The windmill voltage is wild, meaning the PROPER dump load can not be calculated, and it will can away under certain conditions.

The only place where that type of system is available is ebay, and they are home brew junk.

If it was a good idea, someone other than ebay hackers would be making them!

G-

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2010, 01:54:22 PM »

Thank you!!

so it is smart and will only allow a certain amount of power to go to the load, it wont just open a switch and let the load suck all the power it wants from the turbine, and if that isn't enough the battery.. that's the impression I was getting...

So for what my turbine can produce and what my charge controller can handle how can I then figure out a good dump load... my battery system will be 24v and my turbine can produce 1000 watts (motor is rated at 48v 1000w at 500 rpm)

TomW · « **Reply #25 on:** February 13, 2010, 01:57:37 PM »

G;

None so blind as those that will not see.

How many of your units out there in real world use today?

Better send me mine so I can be a victim of your terrible design and suffer my very own failure!

Ok, everyone, [if there is anyone] with a functional Ghurd Controller please comment on how it works in the Real World.

Sorry I just could not resist posting to this crazy uninformed thread.

Thats it.

Seriously, send me a 24 volt controller. Email me and I will put the cash in your Bahamian bank account. My batteries are at 31 volts and still soaking up 30 amps got everything running that makes sense on the inverter. I need a dump load controller yesterday.

Tom

Perry1 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 13, 2010, 02:14:06 PM »

Hello,

Your furling angle looks very steep (your tail will furl very high). What were you thinking of using as an offset? Maybe if you has a front view.

I wouldn't worry too much about the neo's as yaw bearings. They will buy you nothing and just cost money. Real bearings aren't necessary. You'd be surprised how well a pipe on pipe bearing works. That tail will swing it around easily.

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #27 on:** February 13, 2010, 02:43:59 PM »

hey this is all a learning experience.... one reason I designed this and put it on here is for criticism. What angle do you suggest? 15 degrees? i have it set to 45 in the drawing.

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #28 on:** February 13, 2010, 02:46:12 PM »

Wish I was as "informed" as you... sucks we all can't be that "great"

Perry1 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 13, 2010, 03:53:40 PM »

On my 10 footer I just copied the book. Forget off the top of my head what the angles were but I will check if nobody here pipe up.

Here's a good link on furling information.

Perry

http://www.thebackshed.com/windmill/Docs/Furling.asp

ghurd · « **Reply #30 on:** February 13, 2010, 05:49:17 PM »

Well... I have no idea how many amps it will make.

Assuming some assumptions...

Best guess is 1000W/52V= 19.25A max

Heat kills motors. Basically, Amps x Amps x Coil Ohms = Watts of heat in the motor.

Meaning the motor is limited to about 20A, regardless of anything else.

Meaning 20A x 28.8V = 575W. Try to go much past it, and it will smoke. There is a reasonable chance it will pretty much hit a plateau a bit before that anyway.

If it can make more than 20 or so amps, want to furl right about there. Guessing thats at about 500RPM.

Lets say it makes 20A, and that's where it peaks and plateaus.

Need to dump about 25A, or a bit more.

And 25A x 30V is 750W, meaning the load has to be rated for MORE than 750W.

Now is where the headache and wallet pain come in. It is a bit hard to find the exact perfect power resistors.

I did a quick look for what is suitable...

Myself, being cheap, I would probably use 4 parallel 4 ohm 300W power resistors.

Each will dump about 7.2A, and operate at 210W.

Ohmite #C300K4R0E, Mouser #588-C300K4R0E, Non-stocked/Special order, $23 each.

Might find something 'more perfect', but then they could go up to over $75 each, which by my standards makes them a lot less perfect.

Need to be careful the dump load does not exceed 40A even during equalization, and the power in the resistors is at least 20% less (IMHO) than their rating.

Random power resistors from wherever rarely end up being a good idea.

Do Not buy power resistors until you know how many peak amps it makes.

And even with a 24V system, I doubt those blades are suited to a 290RPM cut in.

G-

Sr WiNdTeCh · « **Reply #31 on:** February 13, 2010, 06:47:35 PM »

Thank you very much, This is all still experimental to me, I can always sell what doesn't work, but when I find a deal I usually go for it! I'm also looking into building my own solar panels... we will see how that goes too... I got a bonus from work and just felt like using it on a hobby....

ghurd · « **Reply #32 on:** February 13, 2010, 07:07:29 PM »

"I'm also looking into building my own solar panels..."

I suggest looking into that on this board,

and NOT at the places selling cells,

and Certainly NOT at the places selling books about it!

G-

News:

Author Topic: 48 V 1000 W electric bike hub motor wind turbine... (Read 19695 times)