Author Topic: Heated Water Trough for Livestock  (Read 42481 times)

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SparWeb

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Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« on: November 23, 2008, 05:54:56 AM »
If you'd asked me a year ago if I would be posting to the "Water" section, I would have answered "no".

How things change!

Here's an interesting project that I took on this month.  With winter here, and water troughs needing heat to stay thawed, I've put up with exposed steel troughs long enough.  Why these things don't just come from the manufacturer with insulation wraps is a mystery to me.  Three years ago, I built an insulated box for a water trough, and it is still effective.  Now that we have more horses we need more water troughs.  Into the old water trough, I never built into it provisions for putting in insulation.  I decided that the second cover would be better and have insulation.


To insulate mine, I had plenty of particle-board and 2x4's lying around, so building a box to cover the trough was easy.  I built this carefully, however, to ensure room for the insulation and not much wasted space around the trough walls.




To capture some heat from the sun, I found a great idea from Build-It-Solar, and added a solar collector to one side.   Here is the page from Build It Solar that inspired me.  There were some limitations in the Build-It-Solar water trough, most relating to the need for ruggedness.  Worse, the water was held in only by walls of plywood lined with plastic pool-wrap.  Horses are like little bulldozers with teeth.  Leaving a solar collector within reach of their hooves invites disaster.  And if it isn't possible to throw in a floating water heater on seriously cold days, then there's no point in doing this project.  A piddly solar collector will not melt water when it's -30!  So using a metal trough to hold the water was essential.



For the solar collector to heat the water, the sunlight must be absorbed efficiently.  I painted the water trough black.  It turned out that the black paint was glossy, but I had a bit of matte left in a spray can, so I lightly sprayed that on the side that would be in the sun.  Sun entering the clear panel hits the black metal water tank and passively warms the water.  I have no idea how strong the effect will ultimately be, but I'll never find out if I don't try.  



So far, I've used only left-over materials from other projects (building a new barn, tearing down an old one, etc.).  When it came to covering the solar collector, I had some translucent panel materials, which also happened to fit perfectly.  Looking at them realistically, though, I realized that the fiberglass panels would not let much light through directly to the trough.  A lot of energy would be absorbed into the fiberglass sheets themselves, defeating the purpose.  I went to the hardware store and picked up a clear corrugated polycarbonate sheet instead ("Suntuf").  It was easy to work with, and is very transparent.



I packed foam insulation into the walls, including making an insulated base with a sandwich of plywood and foam insulation.  The insulation in the walls is R=7.5, and the double thickness in the bottom would be about R=15.  More insulation on top of the trough does two things.  First, obviously, insulates the water from radiating heat through the top surface.  Second, the top sheet of insulation blocks air circulation between the sun collector area and the air above the water.  Why?



Because you have to cut a hole in the lid!  The horses are getting thirsty!  (another mystery of the Build-It-Solar tank, they carefully tested their tank, but there was no drinking hole in it)  With a hole cut out, the air above the water will almost always be cold.  Wind will make that air circulate in and out of the hole.  If the air circulation also cools the air in the solar collector, then the solar effect is diminished.



Here it finally is, facing south (it was sunset when I took the picture, so no more sunshine into the collecter).  The cut-out in the top is 12"x12"; just enough for the horses to poke their noses through.  They aren't too keen on doing that yet, but they are getting used to it.  Pieces of metal trim around the edges of plywood to prevent chewing.



Well, there it is.  Hope it interests someone.  Not a lot of farmers visit a site like this one, I know, but I thought it was germane to the topics of saving energy and collecting it from the sun.


Steven

« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 05:54:56 AM by (unknown) »
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spinningmagnets

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Re: Solar-Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2008, 11:17:35 PM »
I think a lot of people will be interested in this. I don't have livestock, but it might be interesting to set up a control tub of water the same size next to it.


It would be persuasive to show how warm the solar water is after only a couple hours of morning sun with the frozen water next to it proving your solar trough was truly exposed to the cold.


Great pics! thanks Steven.

« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 11:17:35 PM by spinningmagnets »

FishbonzWV

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2008, 04:38:49 AM »
Nice clean job there Steven,

If it needs more oomph, add some concentrator wings on the sides and bottom.

Plywood covered with roof flashing mounted at a 45 degree angle will direct more sun into the box.

Looks like you've got about a foot between the box and the fence, that should do nicely for the sides and you could just lay the bottom piece on the ground in front of the box.

Again, nice job!
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 04:38:49 AM by FishbonzWV »
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zap

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2008, 08:33:11 AM »
Builditsolar has so much good information... nice work Steven!


"Why these things don't just come from the manufacturer with insulation wraps is a mystery to me."

We're creatures of habit, maybe they think, since breaking ice has been around since man first started raising stock, that's the way it should be?  Maybe they assume you'll have the axe out anyway to chop wood, why not not chop the ice also?


Speaking of "habit"...

How about a trough that requires the horses to grab a short rope to lift the lid.  Either directly lifting the lid or using a pulley... or step on a board that lifts the lid with a lever?  I haven't been around horses much but most horses I have been around seem to be smart enough to figure something like that out.

I would assume that the warmer you can get the water, the less feed you would need to provide?  A closed lid would certainly keep the water warmer.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 08:33:11 AM by zap »

GaryGary

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2008, 08:36:38 AM »
Hi Steve,

Great job!


Just to clarify the odd features of the BuildItSolar tank:  When I did the prototype tank for BuildItSolar, the idea was to see if it worked thermally -- it was not intended to use with real horses, just to see if it could keep the water from freezing.  The biggest four leg creature we have is our dog.  I just saw the way my neighbor was using tons of electricity to keep his horse tank from freezing, and thought there ought to be a better way.  It does not show well on the pictures, but the floating insulation layer had enough open area to simulate a drinking hole.  

I was surprised at how well the tank did over the several months I tracked it on keeping the water from freezing.

http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/StockTank/SolarStockTankProto.htm


Its interesting that your horses don't mind putting their heads down through the opening in the cover -- When I proposed the same idea to one horse owner, I was told very adamantly there was no way her horses would put their head through that hole -- I guess horses have their own personalities:)


It looks like the horses are getting along with the tank OK?  Did they have any problem getting used to it?  Or, want to destroy it in any way?


I am working on a new one with my neighbor that will be built around her existing galvanized tank.


If you can send me the same material you posted here on your tank, I'll add it to the growing collection of solar/insulated horse tanks.  gary AT BuildItSolar DOT com


Gary

« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 08:36:38 AM by GaryGary »

SparWeb

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2008, 03:52:33 PM »
"...horses I have been around seem to be smart enough..."


Perhaps most, but not all! :^)


The way to do that is actually to have a floating ball that rises up to a round hole.  When the horse pushes its nose on the ball, it will sink deeply enough for the horse to reach the water.  My parents would spend hundreds of dollars buying tanks like those for their cattle.  Inevitably they would freeze solid and none of the cows could drink.  At least once per winter when I was a kid, I would wander through the pasture and discover a long extension cord leading to a hair-dryer perched over one of these tanks!

« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 03:52:33 PM by SparWeb »
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SparWeb

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2008, 04:06:46 PM »
Hi Gary, I'd love to share the description for your site.

I'll drop you a line, but you can copy the message as-is, if the Otherpower site is okay with that.


The horses are already accustomed to it now.  Covered water tanks have been a part of our horses' lives for years (I just never put the effort into it like this time).  Of the 6 we have now and two or three who have come and gone before, none have avoided drinking because there was a box over the water.  It's not the horse's personality that's the obstacle!  Horse owners are well known for their stubborn protectiveness.  Give a tank with a small hole to a horse and it will get it.


Thanks for clarifying the question I had about the cover opening.  I didn't realize you weren't actually trying to water any livestock with it.


I kept the square piece of styrofoam that I cut out, if ever we need to leave the tank full of water, but with no horses around to drink it.


In fact, I do have another stock tank, with nothing but a plywood box over it to break the wind.  It is for a separate trio of horses in a different pasture.  My wife already expects me to get a pair of thermometers to dip into each and compare.

« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 04:06:46 PM by SparWeb »
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SparWeb

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2008, 04:14:07 PM »
I just discovered that my wife has an aversion to the sound of cutting and sliding stryofoam, like some people can't stand the sound of fingernails on a chalkboard.  I started to take the lid off and she put her hands over her ears and nearly ran away!!
« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 04:14:07 PM by SparWeb »
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phil b

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2008, 09:49:17 AM »
Hi Steven. Nice work!

Breaking ice in the winter is a big chore and it is not good when the livestock can't drink.


I have insulated tanks in the past by wrapping Styrofoam around them in strips to fit the curves and secured it with baling wire. A layer of aluminum flashing finishes the job.


A plywood lid fits on 3/4 of the tank during the lowest temperatures.  I don't use a metal border on the lid because calves will still try to chew it and may hurt their mouths. Yearly replacement is better for me.


I like the way you insulated the box and installed Sun-Tuf for the panel. That's got to be a big improvement over simply adding insulation.


BTW, My neighbors bury small stock tanks in the ground. They leave a 12" hole and install a float valve on a water line to fill them. All their farm animals drink there year round. They say they don't freeze. It would depend on you frost line. I don't know how they clean them though.


Thanks for the post Steven!

And thanks to Gary! I have learned so much from your site.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 09:49:17 AM by phil b »
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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2008, 10:34:52 AM »
You can lead a horse to ice, but you can't make him chew?


I keep thinking it would get an awful lot more BTUs if the clear side had an extra 15~20 degrees of slope.  Maybe 40% more BTUs.


For a hole cover, what about hinged plexi and a spring?

Sort of like a doggie door.

Plexi would have to be long so the bulldozers don't get their noses pinched.

Might be interesting teaching new horses to push on it.

G-

« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 10:34:52 AM by ghurd »
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SparWeb

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2008, 12:26:01 PM »
What latitude do you live at?

Actually, you are technically correct.  The piece of spare board was just long enough to make one diagonal cut at 10 degrees, without wasting any or cutting a new 4x8 sheet.  Frugality won that day.


Thanks for the door idea - not that bad.  Our horses are already used to the box and the little hole, now.  They would certainly not be afraid to push down a floating sheet of ice to get at the water, so wouldn't they push on a piece of plexi?

« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 12:26:01 PM by SparWeb »
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ghurd

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2008, 01:07:00 PM »
Frugality always wins here too.

I am at 41.  I thought you were up there at 51, where in January, the F and C scales meet and fire sometimes freezes.


I did a lot of tinkering with some solar distillers this year.  Do not underestimate the effect the angle has.  It is huge.

But, no.  The stills didn't work out so great.  Maybe next year.


Might want 3/8" plexi?  What if the water was frozen and the door was 1/16" plexi?


Milk cows push on those cups, and horses are smarter than Holsteins.

I'm not saying all Holsteins are un-smart, just that, personally, I never met a smart Holstein.  :-)

G-

« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 01:07:00 PM by ghurd »
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jacobs

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2008, 06:57:04 PM »
I've seen many farmers let a constant trickle of water flow into their stock tanks during the winter.....no more breaking ice.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 06:57:04 PM by jacobs »

SparWeb

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 04:53:37 PM »
I brought this old thread back to life because Gary Reysa at Build-it-solar just published an article about his solar water trough design in Mother Earth News.  Since Gary's first designs were the inspiration for my insulated trough project, I thought it would be nice opportunity to say thanks again.

the article: http://www.motherearthnews.com/do-it-yourself/solar-stock-tank-z10m0gri.aspx

I also noticed that Gary's been going bigger and better:



That fits an 8-foot long trough.  Something about the larger trough probably makes it more efficient that way, too.  If it's 2x the length it will hold 2x the volume, gains 2x the solar energy through a window 2x larger, but the surface area (through which it loses heat) increases by somewhat less than 2x.

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cdtomlinson

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 11:24:13 AM »
Around here, SW MO, people bury a large tractor tire with the side cut out and concrete poured in the bottom with a float valve to keep it full.  I am trying that this week.  Those I have talked to say they have never had one freeze.  Remember to make the tire slightly higher than ground level and put gravel on the ground leading up to the waterer.  This is supposed to keep cows from climbing in the tire and not being able to get out.  I am trying it to see if my goats will stay out of it.
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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2011, 11:20:07 AM »

"  Not a lot of farmers visit a site like this one,"
you would be surprised of the names here: volvofarmer,ontariofarmer,hayfarmer etc. you ever tried using a heat well like a mirafont water system ,had one for my

horses and cows no electric heat and auto float for water level.use 55 degree earth ambient temperature to heat water.under the tank via a tube like two 5 gallon buckets placed

on top of each other.did the same thing at my battery shed to help heat the batteries.

hayfarmer
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 11:28:08 AM by hayfarmer »

SparWeb

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2011, 02:03:22 PM »
How deep, Hayfarmer?  I have to dig 3-4 feet to get that.  And if I did dig that hole, the overlying layer of earth that was insulating the dirt is now replaced with a liquid that is 20 degrees cooler.  Insulation replaced with rapid heat-exchange = ground gets cooler.

I think the reason dugout/buried water pits work is the flow through, carrying water from much deeper underground.  It is always being distrubed, drained and refilled for a much larger number of animals.  You don't build that kind of thing for one cow.  You may have dozens, so the constant flow is what prevents freezing.

I think cattle farmers will lean one way when they are obvioulsy going to have 50/100/200/lots more head than a hobby horse owner with 1 or 2.  The scale of the operation makes one kind of water arrangement an over-build, and another, too piddly.  Cattle drink more water per day than horses do, too.   'Specially holsteins, of course.  I wouldn't recommend this box for cows.  It'd be totally smashed in a month.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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hayfarmer

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2011, 07:11:20 PM »
hey spar ,my mirafount water system had a heat well 2 five gallon buckets deep underneath the trough. I didn't have a shallow water line like you have but had 25 cows happy as a clam drinking cleaner water than out of trough cause the push down balls on the mirafount kept algae and hay and such out,a creative guy could build one here is the link to the site.I think the water temp should still be 55 degree down there,the trick is not to let the air get to it to cool it down.

http://www.miraco.com/MiraFount.aspx



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SparWeb

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2011, 02:40:49 PM »
Yup, that's what I thought.  Those boxes have been around for a long time.
That's the tank I was referring to when I wrote this:

Quote
The way to do that is actually to have a floating ball that rises up to a round hole.  When the horse pushes its nose on the ball, it will sink deeply enough for the horse to reach the water.  My parents would spend hundreds of dollars buying tanks like those for their cattle.  Inevitably they would freeze solid and none of the cows could drink.  At least once per winter when I was a kid, I would wander through the pasture and discover a long extension cord leading to a hair-dryer perched over one of these tanks!

Dad gave up on those years ago, though I doubt he dug out a well under it.  Instead he plumbed the barn, with enough drains that any time the cows were outside for more than a day, he could evacuate all the water.  When the cows are inside, of course, the body heat keeps everything warm.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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just-doug

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2011, 10:37:22 PM »
i had 11 horses off grid and the best water er i built with a 55 gallon plastic barrel.cut a 10 inch slot in the top,put a through bung near the bottom.sunk barrel full depth in ground in fenceline to prevent horses from getting leg in barrel.slot protruded on both sides of fence to make two waters from one barrel.freezing dept was about 20 inches,bury dept for waterline  was36 to 48 inches.about 600 feet of water line to the barrel with a float on a chain running to the float valve in bottom of the barrel.the water line acted as a simple ground source heater.the more water they drank,the warmer the water to a point,the less they drank the more time the water had to cool off. 11 horses no freezing over till about 20 below zero,two horses and water would freeze about 1-2 inches thick.at this point the lead horse in the herd will stand over the ice and breath on it,melting a round hole in the ice.simple one horse water heater.after the lead horse drinks,the second horse drinks,no heat needed.

SparWeb

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2011, 05:39:45 PM »
Doug,

That is really interesting.  You (and hayfarmer and others who've written about this) are starting to convince me that I should stop keeping the water trough above ground.  Despite trouble I've seen in the past, burying the tanks makes the heat loss go wayyyy down, even if supplemental electric heat is necessary at times.  It was -30F overnight just 2 days ago.

 
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RP

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2011, 10:05:36 PM »
Has anyone every tried using a passive heat pipe for this?  I've fiddled with making these before and I've wondered if they could work for keeping water thawed.  I don't have a farm right now to try this out though.

Heat pipes are used in Alaska on the oil pipeline to keep the permafrost frozen year round under the support foundations.  Basically they suck so much heat out in the winter from underground that the soil stays frozen all summer too.

My thought is that a heat pipe could be driven into the ground maybe 10-15 feet with the upper end in the trough (or pond) and used to bring ground heat up in the winter to keep the water above freezing.  Hopefully there would be enough heat to last the winter and also enough conductivity in the summer to recover the warmth underground during the summer.

A home-made heat pipe is surprisingly easy to build.

joestue

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2011, 12:48:16 PM »
Has anyone every tried using a passive heat pipe for this?  I've fiddled with making these before and I've wondered if they could work for keeping water thawed.  I don't have a farm right now to try this out though.

My thought is that a heat pipe could be driven into the ground maybe 10-15 feet with the upper end in the trough (or pond) and used to bring ground heat up in the winter to keep the water above freezing.  Hopefully there would be enough heat to last the winter and also enough conductivity in the summer to recover the warmth underground during the summer.

not a half bad idea.
Keep in mind that home made heat pipes won't putheat into the ground, so you may find that you need quite a few of them.
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SparWeb

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2011, 03:48:29 PM »
This is one of the things I regret not thinking of when I had the frost-free hydrants put in.  With the ground trenches dug down 6 feet, it would have been ridiculously easy to throw in an extra hose to be hooked up as a "ground loop" for some geothermal heat-exchange.  It would have been enough to keep both water troughs frost free without electric heat - just a small pump to circulate the water.
Too bad.
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TheEquineFencer

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2011, 05:38:34 AM »
Build a box around the stock tank with a lid cover that leaves the top of the tank open and seals the top of the box around the sides. Fill the box hit horse crap and let the composting keep the water a nice steamy temp. In the spring clean it out and use the compost in your garden.

Bruce S

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2011, 10:09:06 AM »
Build a box around the stock tank with a lid cover that leaves the top of the tank open and seals the top of the box around the sides. Fill the box hit horse crap and let the composting keep the water a nice steamy temp. In the spring clean it out and use the compost in your garden.
Interesting. Have you done this? would neat to see pics of how well the HM would decomposed by spring.
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artv

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2011, 01:36:01 PM »
Hi ,....My wife finally got her horse she always wanted, I will be needing to figure a way to keep the water from freezing as well.
Steve ...I read an article on Build it Solar site where you made a sort of solar heated trough ,did you find this didn't work out,...I think I remember you saying that on the coldest nights ,you would have roughly 1" of ice on top??
Equine,...how much bigger would that box have to be,...the nights can get pretty cold around here,...-30 is not uncommon after a couple of days of steady cold I think the manure would freeze solid ,..no??..........thanks for your time......artv

SparWeb

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2011, 09:49:34 PM »
Works great, 3 years on.  I live where electric heat is mandatory.  There's just no solar collector size that can compete with the northerly gales.  The instructions on BIS are very detailed, especially with everything Gary has added to the pages since my project.
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TheEquineFencer

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2012, 08:31:14 PM »
You can heat your house if the piles big enough and deep enough to around 120*F-150*F water temp wwith piping run through the pipe. decompossing chipped woodand/or sawdust will heat it too.

GaryGary

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Re: Heated Water Trough for Livestock
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2012, 10:12:47 PM »
You can lead a horse to ice, but you can't make him chew?<p>
I keep thinking it would get an awful lot more BTUs if the clear side had an extra 15~20 degrees of slope.  Maybe 40% more BTUs.<p>
For a hole cover, what about hinged plexi and a spring?

Sort of like a doggie door.

Plexi would have to be long so the bulldozers don't get their noses pinched.

Might be interesting teaching new horses to push on it. 

G-

Hi Glen,

I think the vertical slope works pretty well if there is snow in front of it to reflect light -- but, no reason it could not be angled a bit.

As you say, the hole for the stock to drink is now the big heat loser.  Have to talk the neighbor about whether her horses could learn to use the plexi door -- I'm thinking maybe not :)

The tank is still going strong.

Gary