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Renewable/Portable power generation and Storage | 29 comments (29 topical, editorial)
ethanol vs biodiesel (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by troy on Mon May 2nd, 2005 at 03:19:54 PM MST
(User Info)

In a low-tech (do-it-yourself) operation, it takes approx one gallon of fossil fuel to produce one gallon of ethanol.  In a high-tech, high efficiency operation, you could get at best l.7 gallons of ethanol out for every gallon of fossil fuel input.  That's using state of the art catalytic conversion techniques that you just can't do yourself.

Oil crops on the other hand, generally yield 3-5 gallons of fuel out per gallon of input.  Using waste veggie oil converted to biodiesel, it can go as high as 7 or 8 gallons out per gallon invested.

This has been studied a lot.  Do a google search on the phrase:

Energy
Returned
On
Energy
Invested

Or EROEI for short.

So don't plan on saving the world growing your own ethanol, unfortunately.  I wish it were that easy.  As a junior and senior in high school, I was doing research on distillation techniques that would be appropriate for agriculture back when we were going broke raising cattle and hogs and growing corn in the late 70's.  It was quite a shock to realize that it's essentially a losing proposition.

Good luck and have fun.

troy



Re: ethanol vs biodiesel (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by TomW on Mon May 2nd, 2005 at 05:46:43 PM MST
(User Info)

Troy;

Great points often lost on city folks who seem to think farming is simply tossing a handful of seeds on the ground and watching the bin fill!

Fuel, fertilizer, lubricants, repairs and oh did I mention capital investment in land and equipment?

Cheers.

TomW

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain
[ Parent ]



Re: ethanol vs biodiesel (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by asheets on Thu May 5th, 2005 at 03:28:45 PM MST
(User Info)

If gasoline prices go to $x, then count on any fuel produced on the farm to cost $x+y.  Ethanol prices are what they are today because of govt subsidies.
_____________________________

Alan Sheets
[ Parent ]



Re: ethanol vs biodiesel (3.00 / 0) (#23)
by scottsAI (user name at eml dot cc) on Thu May 5th, 2005 at 11:40:49 PM MST
(User Info)

OK, took advice, since it's what I usually say. Link:
http://www.ethanol-gec.org/corn_eth.htm

Summery:
The U.S. ethanol industry grew from practically zero production in the late 1970's to over 1 billion gallons in 1994, spurred by national energy security concerns, new Federal gasoline standards, and government incentives. Each gallon of ethanol produced domestically displaces 7 gallons of imported oil. In addition, production of ethanol is energy efficient, in that it yields nearly 25 percent more energy than is used in growing the corn, harvesting it, and distilling it into ethanol.

Interesting data, good read what do you think? Bunch of BS or is the info good?
Never talks about the price of ethanol, or the cost of anything. Just the EROEI.
Have fun.

[ Parent ]



Re: ethanol vs biodiesel (3.00 / 0) (#28)
by troy on Mon May 9th, 2005 at 09:22:18 AM MST
(User Info)

Well, again, let's compare ethanol to biodiesel:
  1. gallon of petroleum imput yields:
  2. 25 gallons ethanol (using your number) vs
  3. -5 gallons biodiesel.
So you come out ahead .25 gallon and I come out ahead 2-4 gallons, making biodiesel 8-16 times more efficient based on Energy returned vs energy invested.  

Clearly the winner is biodiesel,

Sincerely,

troy

[ Parent ]



Renewable/Portable power generation and Storage | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 editorial)

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