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Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free | 19 comments (19 topical)
Nasa has it for free as well and I believe them. (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by rotornuts on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 11:01:11 PM MST

Before ordering I ask everyone to follow the links below and look for the noted tidbits.

We'll start here,

http://www.integener.com/HomeLinksAndProjs/Page01.htm

Please scroll down to the link to Nasa and the comment,"This NASA webpage puts the physical source of the aerodynamic lift force right (while other pages on this website debunk erroneous explanations)".

Next lets go to the Nasa website here,

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/newton3.html

This link speaks about "Principia Mathematica Philosophiae Naturalis"  and in particular the third law of motion and how it applies to lift. Support for Anthonies theory?

Let's go on and follow the link that is the word lift.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/right2.html

Here we see some talk about lift from flow turning or deflection as the words seem to be used interchangably. Still looking good for Anthony. There's even mention of the fact that some incorrect theories of lift come from ignoring this this reaction.

But lets go back to the top and have a look at "airplane wings" since these do after all resemble turbine blades more than spinning balls and rotating cylinders.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/factors.html

Well at a glance it seems Nasa is saying that all you need to do to create lift is turn a flow of air. Shall we investigate further or shall we rest assurred Anthony has uncovered the truth and Nasa concurrs?

What the heck lets just have a quick peek at whats behind the "wing size" link since we're allready there and Anthony has told us what shape it should be.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/size.html

Well, nice little link there. talks about drag, the lift equation and some planform stuff too but what's this about drag? I haven't heard much from Anthony on drag. An what's this about "pressure variation" back up at the top of the page. I could be mistaken but I thought the "bent" or "turned air flow theory" didn't care about pressure as it was a part of the incorrect theory of lift.

I think we better have a look.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/presar.html

And there you have it folks. the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

And P.S. the images Anthony has posted above are taken from the Nasa web site so basicly you can find all Anthonies book has to offer and more in it's unaltered form  from a source you should be able to trust, including imagry, at the Nasa website.

Feel free to continue learning there as it really is about the most complete source of introductory and advance aerodynamics on the net!

Mike



The Aerodynamic Lift Booklet of IntegEner-W (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by IntegEner on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 09:09:07 AM MST

It would be of use if the writer had a copy of the booklet and I look forward to mailing one off to him, upon request. The contents of the booklet is its own best answer to what is being said, somewhat misrepresented, I believe, in the above. Debates on lift theory go on forever and that, itself, becomes a problem. Many more copies of the booklet are now being printed so as to satisfy recent requests for it and I hope my interest in the details and my efforts to make a few things clear have some value. I honestly came away from these comments with the thought that they were not very critical. Flight and aviation is miraculous but one need not be an aviator to know that some differences pertain to wind energy.

Anthony C.
www.integener.com

[ Parent ]



Re: The Aerodynamic Lift Booklet of IntegEner-W (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by finnsawyer on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 09:54:52 AM MST

You state that it is desirable for the public to be well informed.  Yet when your methodology is challenged by invoking known properties of air foils, windmills, Newtonian Mechanics, vectors, as well as drag, you ignore the challenges and continue blithely on like a Tsunami.  Your statements are also full of contradictions.  You state that you fell out with the lift equation, because you realized that air flow effects far from the air foil are not considered.  yet your 'celebrated' equation introduces a constant that depends on the geometry of the air foil.  Well, duh, how is that different and how does that rope in the effects far from the air foil?  Your equation also falls apart for the very range of angles where an airfoil exhibits its greatest lift.  You don't seem to realize that when proposing a new theory one cannot simply wish away that which is known from experimental data about a particular phenomenon.  One must show that the new theory either explains better what is already known or embraces what is already known and provides experimentally verifiable insights beyond what is already known.  Whenever you are challenged to do that you duck and run for cover.    
GeoM
[ Parent ]


Re: The Aerodynamic Lift Booklet of IntegEner-W (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by jimovonz on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 01:08:39 PM MST

You have a "booklet"! Why didn't you say from the start! I am much more likely to accept your theories if you have a "booklet". I have many interesting theories myself but unfortunately none have yet made it to "booklet" form.
If your goal is to enlighten us (the public) as you state, why on earth is the information in the "booklet" not freely available for direct view/download on your web site? It seems an odd way of doing things. Even more odd is the fact that you have charged for this information in the past. You are trying to gain acceptance for your ideas and charging folk for the privilege. You are pushing the idea of advanced aerodynamics yet your demonstration projects are whirligig lawn ornaments? You are selling blades for wind turbines and have no (or will not publish) power figures?
It is easy to see why you’re encountering some resistance here. Perhaps you would have been better off preaching to folk who are somewhat less informed as those here on the board.


[ Parent ]


Re: The Aerodynamic Lift Booklet of IntegEner-W (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by finnsawyer on Sun Jan 08, 2006 at 09:46:52 AM MST

You raise a fundamental question here?  why is he so bull-headed about his 'theory'?  People can become emotionally attached to their ideas and blind about the shortcomings.  There is also the issue of the investment of time and money.  If you admit you are wrong without something to replace it, the money stops coming in.  This is something that has been seen time and again over the years even for supposedly mainstream researchers as their economic welfare and reputations became dependent on erroneous points of view.

I feel that Anthony's unwillingness to address criticisms is disrespectful of the very community he is trying to reach.  I don't believe it will prove productive for him in the long run.  

I find your comment about accepting his theories because he has a 'booklet' intriguing.  I didn't realize putting something in writing had such a pull.  Perhaps I should do the same.  My philosophy was to justify my approach by building the system, but perhaps it's not necessary.  Maybe it's better to give up the possibility of patents of dubious value by widely disseminating the information at reasonable cost.  It's something to think about.
GeoM
[ Parent ]



Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free | 19 comments (19 topical)

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