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Latest crackpot scheme (of mine)... | 17 comments (17 topical, editorial)
Re: Latest crackpot scheme (of mine)... (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by DamonHD (d@hd.org) on Sat Nov 17th, 2007 at 11:55:11 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.earth.org.uk/

I've updated the page with a little diagram.

The design now incorporates an over-size hot-water tank (ie thermal store) for more than 24 hours' heat/DHW so that the heat-pump can be driven by solar PV to avoid needing grid-power (though the diagram shows the PV grid-tied).  A bigger in-house store allows for more days without decent sunshine without needing grid power.

The link is: http://www.earth.org.uk/milk-tanker-thermal-store.html

Rgds

Damon



Re: Latest crackpot scheme (of mine)... (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 01:10:51 PM MST
(User Info)

I'd only go for two tanks if you also want to store cold for cooling.  B-)

I notice your consultant quoted you a vacuum tube system.  That may be overkill unless you want to store some VERY hot water.

There are three main types of (non-concentrating) solar collectors for water heating:

 - Unglazed (black-painted metal sheet with tubes soldered to it, serpintine or coil of black tubing, or outdoor storage tank painted black)
 - Glazed (ditto under glass in insulating box for greenhouse effect and to keep the wind off)
 - Vacuum-insulated.

Unglazed is for collecting heat at roughly the ambient air temperature, so little or no insulation is required.  Typical use is for heating a swimming pool - bringing it up to temperature after a fill and keeping it warm against evaporative cooling.  The "black tank" is also useful for hot showers in the afternoon and is often used at campgrounds (and typically reserved for staff use B-) ).

Glazed is usually adequate for hot water heating and the like.  You get much higher temperature output because you're not losing very much heat to conduction.

Vacuum insulated is where you pay some big bucks to get extremes of temperature.  It might be good for your stoarge system, since it increases the amount of heat you can store in a given amount of water.  Then again it may be overkill.

If you do go for vacuum insulated collectors, I'd consider glazed also, with the two in series:  Glazed first to get the temperature up cheaply, then vacuum to really peak up the temperature just before the water goes into storage.

(Myself I'd go for trough concentrators and antifreeze-solution storage with a heat exchanger before worrying about vacuum tube collectors.  Heat exchangers are easy:  Pipe-in-pipe using standard plumbing-grade copper tube and fittings, wrapped in insulate-your-pipes foam.  Or peel the insulation from your hot water heater temporarily and solder a coil of copper tubing wound around the tank.  Remember to use counter-current for efficient heat transfer.  Pump the heat storage solution in at the top out at the bottom.)

[ Parent ]



Re: Latest crackpot scheme (of mine)... (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by DamonHD (d@hd.org) on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 01:36:29 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.earth.org.uk/

Thanks for that.  I simply chose the vacuum tube as the most 'efficient' collection mechanism per unit area as roof space is potentially limiting, and considering other costs, I hadn't looked at the collectors in any more detail.

What you say about glazed and vacuum in series sounds very interesting.  I don't know if you've revisited my page very recently, but I've thought a fair amount about having an in-house thermal store to cover more than a days' energy to ride out cloudy days and to allow the heat-pump to run only when local solar PV is available.  The water in that over-size hot-tank should be kept above 60C to kill Legionella, so higher temperatures from the solar thermal collectors (to minimise need for a the heat-pump when it would be rather inefficient) would be good to help achieve that.

Actually, roofspace would seem under greater attack from the solar PV needed to drive the heat-pump according to my sums!  I'm running out of fingers and toes... B^>

It's now starting to look to me that to be truly carbon-neutral all year round, even each and every mid-winter day, with solar thermal and PV as the RE sources, is looking more like £200k, which just shows what the grids (electricity and gas) and a stable society (to allow them to exist) do for us!

Our current house probably isn't going to be the one to get the treatment, but when we choose our next one, we'll be looking for something that can support some or all of these mechanisms.

Rgds

Damon

[ Parent ]



Re: Latest crackpot scheme (of mine)... (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by DamonHD (d@hd.org) on Mon Nov 19th, 2007 at 01:37:44 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.earth.org.uk/

BTW, I've quoted your idea on my page, thanks again...  B^>

[ Parent ]


Latest crackpot scheme (of mine)... | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial)

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