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11 KW - English WIND MILL | 9 comments (9 topical, editorial)
Re: 11 KW - English WIND MILL (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by Nando (nando37-at-tx-dot-rr-dot-com Correct theanti-spam) on Sat Sep 15th, 2007 at 02:55:55 PM MST
(User Info)

JACQUES:

No it is not a clone of your design and I did not design it at all.

Simon, the owner of the 11 KW wind mill, got the drawings from another source and he cut all the materials with a CNC he was upgrading or repairing ( cut the materials for the mill to test the machine) and I helped him to acquire the generator, which was free (not counting the shipping), my part was to teach him how to MPPT the available power.

Centrifugal Pitch Controlled designs are all over the world, I used to have at least 12 - 15 different designs ( this several decades ago), then you could go and search for patents to find many more designs.
Right now there are many more patents and quite a few of them have "died".

I went to your indicated files and saw the build, it looks good.

By the way, I do understand the forces involved and I can calculate them which are needed for a Torque Pitch Controlled Hub, or of course, for a centrifugal pitch controlled hub.

Nando

[ Parent ]



Re: 11 KW - English WIND MILL (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Sat Sep 15th, 2007 at 03:30:46 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

the 'bar and weight' trick has been used on commercial machines, most notably on many designs that did not live past their first year in flight.

DanB once sold me one of the less fortunate ones :)

The reason for that is that the forces are not working just to move the blades but also to wrench the weights off the shafts. Which eventually succeeds... And even if it doesn't succeed directly it tends to fatigue the shafts.

Secondly, you have copied (accidentally or otherwise we'll leave to the observer, but let's just say the number of design details that exactly match mine which was arrived at after 18 months of experimenting) the biggest flaw that you could possibly have, which is that this design has a maximum speed until which the governor will work and then above that speed is will make things worse instead of better. The reason for this is the pitching moment, which gets larger very fast when the wind speeds go up, and which increases with decreased blade angle. You need to correct for that, and from the attachment point of the root of your blades it is evident that no such correction is in place.

Then there is the execution of the design, the welding to the base plate causes local hardening of the metal, you'll have to anneal the whole governor plate to get rid of that or the welds will fatigue. Also even the smallest flex of the base plate will eventually bind the bushings which will stop the governor from working.

A flat plate (like in my design, which you say you did not copy and which your friend has no knowledge off, oh, you stole it elsewhere, would you mind posting the link so we can go and have a look ?) is not a very good base for a windmill, no matter how thick you make it. A hollow 'cake' shaped box with inserts would already be a lot (make that a whole lot) better.

Then there is the issue of damping, again, you matched my errors 1:1, such coincidence. There is nothing there that stops the machine from going from flat to coarse pitch in 0.1 seconds. A mill that size going coarse pitch is like strapping an out of control aircraft engine to your mast, it will yank the tower forward with a tremendous force. In my case that force was enough to lift a barrel full of concrete clear out of its hole. Then this phenomenon will repeat itself because after the mill has expended its energy trying to throw the guy anchors into the neighboring fields it will flip rearwards again as the wind pushes it and will speed up again. This will happen over and over. Unless you add damping. Which if you had a look at a commercially designed variable pitch hub instead of my poor substitute for one you had known. And I didn't, because I really did design it from scratch.

You seem to be quite eager to associate yourself with the design, there must be a thousand different ways to make a variable pitch hub, I've seen plenty and no two of them look as much alike as your 'friends' design and mine, and you are a fieldlines member, the coincidences pile up quite high.

sayonara,

 Jacques.
www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



11 KW - English WIND MILL | 9 comments (9 topical, 0 editorial)

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