You failed to read the 11KW and really determine if I did design such centrifugal pitch controlled hub.
Also you run to put down my capacity without knowing if I can or not do such design, I have done 10 and 20 KW Torque Pitch Controlled Hubs and I see that you may have done a centrifugal hub, which did you did not do a Torque Pitch Controlled Hub?.
Since you seem to know the calculations of a centrifugal hub, the calculations of the Torque Pitch Controlled Hub are "close by".
Original designer of the centrifugal pitch controlled died too many years ago, after that, the designs are basic copies of his, many times improved and many times not so improved.
The same thing goes for the Torque Pitch controlled Hub.
Also, I am a design engineer by trade.
Also, the builder seems that was not aware that you existed, so he did not contact you, even more he did not contact me when he started to build his centrifugal controlled hub, when he told me about it and saw what he did, I gave him many more points if we compare yours to mine --.
So please re-direct your put down toward Simon the builder, may be he will respond to your remarks, unhappily, I lost his email address ( cpu crash) to re-direct these messages to him.
Nando[ Parent ]
The calculations are 'close by', but the main issues are not. Also, you may want to warn your friend, even if you did conveniently lose his email address (it can't have been much of a collaboration then can it) that his butt welds of the blade boxes are really not the way to connect the blades on a machine as large as this one.
I don't have any beef with 'your friend' 'simon', I have never heard of the man other than through you and you seem to want to paint a picture of great involvement which is shrinking with every posting.
You start off by all but implying that you are actively involved in the building of this machine and now you can't even find the guys email address :) That's a pretty wide definition of friendship...
For everybody that ever considers doing a variable pitch machine, this particular way is NOT the way to go, there is no failsafe mode (even with an added damper, the damper could fail and the design would destroy the tower or itself), if the pitching moment problem will not destroy it first.
I quote you: "I have done 10 and 20 KW Torque Pitch Controlled Hubs" again implies great knowledge, but instead of showing us 'your' design we get the design of your friend. And its fatal flaws of course do not in any way reflect on you because now you had nothing to do with it.
If you're a 'design engineer by trade' and you've done all these great hub designs then why not show your own work instead of the work of other people.
I'm sure that if 'simon' knew he was nearly a full member of fieldlines he'd be happy to join. Heck, all his work is already here anyway, saves him the uploads.
A real engineer would be begging his friend to change the design instead of flying it as it is shown there and worrying about maximum power point tracking. First you make it work reliable, then you start worrying about harvesting the last little bits of power from it.
Real engineers have a code of conduct, and that does not include collaborating on something that anybody with real knowledge in the field would instantly judge to be a flawed design.
Just check the way those blade boxes are connected to the shafts... can you spell fatigue ?
If that thing works for more than 2 years straight you should go and play the lottery with your 'friend' Simon. Assuming of course you can find out again how to reach him.
ciao.
jwww.greenbits.com[ Parent ]
Simon did the build and told me after he had the unit built which I complained with many more points than the one you have indicated.
the centrifugal design is not one I would like to build and the desire of presenting a design to a group is not for you to tell me if I do it or not.
There are other reasons that you do not need to know.
I have not recommended this 11 KW design, I presented to the otherpower.com for them to see but suggested that the builder replies to the questioners which he did.
You attack without reason.
First determine why such Torque Pitch Controlled Hub design have not being presented.
Second why do I need (or have to) present or show such design ?.
For one, I have asked DanB ( otherpower.com owner) to build one, and I would assist him to build one -- for about 2 or so years and no takers.
When one tries to contact me for such endeavor TOM W attacks with his vitriole behavior.
Also you assume facts and try to put down my honesty and my code of conduct without knowing the true facts -- THAT IS DISHONESTY FROM YOU . A real Engineer will determine the facts, not guess them, are you a real engineer ?.
So it is a losing proposition.
pot kettle black
I'm not an engineer Nando, also I never claimed I am. But you DO claim you are, you have claimed so publicly and fairly loudly and you use that to elevate the status of the stuff you post here.
You were all but claiming you collaborated on this machine but now it seems you have absolutely nothing to do with it, the machine was already built by the time you ever heard of it.
Then you go and say 'I wonder when one of these expermimenters is going to build a variable pitch machine'
Well guess what, one already did. And there are plenty of people working in that direction, which is more than you can say you are doing. So, you're scoffing at the rest of this board for some reason that I'm not aware off by suggesting that they are not building stuff that is worthy of you, the 'great' Nando whose windmills will one day amaze all of us and HE will be vindicated. The biggest I TOLD YOU SO in the history of fieldlines...
I love the "THERE ARE OTHER REASONS THAT YOU DO NOT NEED TO KNOW". Man, the trump card is out, need to know. I'm sorry Nando, I didn't realize you have access to 'higher powers' that have needs that are not mine... LOL... that's really funny.
You seem to be unable to meet my very simple challenge so from now on you'll be on my 'ignore' list. You are 'able to make designs', 'presenting (I love that word, is that a euphemism for 'copied' ?)', 'able to criticize other peoples designs' and you are 'trying to be associated with other peoples designs' but you are unable to post your own designs or show your own production.
It's funny that you should have to 'assist' DanB in designing a VP mill, the guy has more knowledge of windmills in his little pinky than you do as a whole.
Nice hub nando, I had not seen it. The PDF of tower construction is also quite a find thank you. Pity there is no windmill in there.
So, Nando, put up or shut up. Post a design that you have had a hand in, that actually flew and that actually flew more than a year in one spot. And post a picture of that '11 KW winmdill' that you have been pushing so hard. Or go and build a VP machine and document it.
If not then admit you're a poser and call it a day. I have absolutely no problem with it if you turn out to be just a guy that does a little bit of electronics but stop talking about turbines as if you are Hugh Piggott, you're really too small for those boots. Go and BUILD one of your own designs, document the whole deal and you'll get some serious credit. Until then you're just another armchair windmill builder and a cut & paste artist.
Btw, I've since confirmed make & model of that Chinese mill on the tower in January of this year. I thought it was a scaled up version of the Bergey 1 KW unit, it now turns out it's a scaled down version of their 10 KW version, rated 5 KW but more likely 2.5 to 3.5 in a gale out of an 18' prop.
Torque pitch control is fairly dead, every company that tried it commercially has failed, that should say something.
have a nice day,
Jacques.www.greenbits.com[ Parent ]
Now is the time to come clean here. Tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may, etc.
Or are there more things you wish to unsay?
Sorry, pal, but you have been busted just as I suspected and its all public now.
Tuck tail and run time has arrived.
Sorry to the rest of the users but this has just gotten to be too much to take lying down.
Lies, half truths and more lies.
Nuff said.
TomW
"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain[ Parent ]
http://www.martinslade.freeserve.co.uk/
is the site that contains the PDF, at the bottom of the page there is a picture that links to the same stuff that is in 'your' files...
If it was available on the web, you could just as well have linked to it !
Would have saved us all a lot of trouble :) And you would have never lost your friends email address, because, conveniently he has a link to it on his page.
Also there is a picture there of the 'prototype 11 KW machine', but this then shows a picture of a machine that is nowhere close to 11 kW, but it does seem to sit on the tower that is in the drawings, so there probably is some connection:
http://www.martinslade.freeserve.co.uk/P1010006.JPG
The creation date on that image is
Mon, 22 Jan 2007 21:14:55 GMT
The funny thing is that the tower in the picture is the tower in the PDF, but the hub in the picture (and the size machine quoted) do not match at all.
I can't help but notice that the machine that is sitting on the tower there if the tower is 9m tall (and it is according to the description) is only 6 m or about 18' in diameter.
I also can't help but notice that a 10 (or 11 but who is counting) KW machine is roughly 9 m in diameter, and at that size the blades would have some trouble turning because they'd hit the guy wires... Let's hope they added a piece !
if you click the image on the page linked above you land in the pdf.
Which incidentally is pretty useless for comparisons purposes because it expresses the power generated as a function of the rotational speed of the generator shaft, but not as a function of the windspeed...
Do note that the plans mention lots of hydraulics, and that this is NOT a torque hub, but a hydraulically actuated variable pitch machine. So, why do you claim it is meant to be a torque hub ? The two have very little to do with each other.
To help you in your search for your long lost 'friend' I hereby present you with his email address: simon@martinslade.freeserve.co.uk, it was recovered from the CPU you lost at great expense by the CIA using 'carnivore' and express mailed to my door via astral projection. Good to have friends in high places isn't it ?
If that mill ever flew than I'm challenging you to back it up with a picture, I'm sure Simon won't mind you posting one, since you already posted his PDF.
For now all I see is a botched attempt at making a VP hub on the floor of somebody's garage and a cheap chinese knockoff of the 1 KW bergey sitting on a tower that will not support a 10 KW machine because of simple geometry. Please prove me wrong, it would make my day. To see that machine in person would make my day even more but I think that as long as the blades are going to be attached the way the photos show that I'll decline for now.
Also, I would like to remind you that passing yourself off as an engineer when you are not (and we are talking licensed engineers here, or is a design engineer somehow exempt) is very unwise.
best regards,
Jacqueswww.greenbits.com[ Parent ]
