Go to Otherpower.com Home Page Go to Forcefield Shopping Cart Go to Wondermagnet.com Home Page
Front Page - [Homebrewed Electricity-- (wind) (solar) (hydro) (steam) (controls) (storage) (mechanical)] - Classifieds - Site News
Everything - Newbies - [Remote Living-- (housing) (heat) (light) (water)] - Rants & Opinion - Diaries - Our Products
More Climate change | 43 comments (43 topical, 0 editorial)
Re: More Climate change (3.00 / 0) (#27)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Sat Jan 5th, 2008 at 04:34:02 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

I honestly think that humans are likely having an impact on the climate, and 'peak oil' is probably something that will be a bigger problem for us sooner and perhaps it's come too late.  "peak oil' suggests that at some point in time well hit the peak of production and  - really, that, and climate change is fairly unrelated.  Odds are peak oil production(from what I've read) will happen soon, but that's only really talking about 'crude oil' - not coal or other fossil fuels.  (coal is probably our biggest problem)

What if humans are having a significant impact on climate?  Should governments get involved to control our behavior - or will 'corporations'/free capitolism solve the problem?

Yes, I do think our current lifestyle is unsustainable =- free market capitolism by itself will not solve the problem.  I think energy is expensive and people in the US and some other places are living beyond their means.  Responsible government should step in and 'tweak' things a bit (or a lot) because it won't happen by itself.  I know this is optimistic thinking on my part (the bit about responsible government).

[ Parent ]



Re: More Climate change (3.00 / 0) (#29)
by Volvo farmer on Sat Jan 5th, 2008 at 07:53:13 PM MST
(User Info)

DanB wrote:
What if humans are having a significant impact on climate?  Should governments get involved to control our behavior - or will 'corporations'/free capitolism solve the problem?

Good point. In fact it seems that government actions have had some success in cleaning up our environment in the past. Automobile emissions in this country are way down from 40 years ago. Rivers and other bodies of water are generally cleaner too. China and India? another story altogether.

If in fact, CO2 emissions are having a significant impact on climate, perhaps more laws could reduce the amount of CO2 going into the atmosphere. However, I think that this lifestyle we are living is entirely dependent on burning things and I don't think that RE can ever possibly step up and fulfill the energy appetite that 6.6 billion souls have grown accustomed to. I don't even think that RE, if fully implemented could supply a quarter of the energy we use today. If you want to make steel, you gotta burn some coal. I like steel.

Here's what I'm trying to say: If, in fact CO2 emissions are leading to a disastrous future for humankind, I don't think there's any way to reduce them enough, on a worldwide scale to make any difference in the long run.  

Ever since I watched that Zeitgeist movie someone posted in here, I have been more and more of the opinion of that guy whose comment I posted in the last thread. I ask myself these questions:

Why is global warming stated as fact in the media so often? I listen to NPR on a regular basis and have heard three or four stories a week for months now. Media is supposed to tell both sides of the story, yet I almost never hear a contrary viewpoint on the news. Why is that? There certainly is a contrary viewpoint. Look at this thread. look at the comments on that site you posted.

So here's my argument in a nutshell. If CO2 is going to ruin the earth, there are too many people burning too much stuff to ever get it under control, no matter what governments do. I think smart, wealthy people know this fact and are hoping to use this big scare of global warming to increase their wealth and influence. Smart, wealthy people own the media and are trying to convince me to give up something that I have, so that they can have more. I could never put my finger on it until I read the comment I posted, but I now truly believe this has EVERYTHING to do with peak oil, and nothing to do with saving the planet from climate change.

I like the fact that you are an optimist. This world needs more optimists. I feel bad being the pessimist all the time but from this side of the keyboard, I think I'm just being a realist, but maybe I'm just paranoid too. Maybe, John Lennon was right all along, and global warming and conspiracy theories don't have nearly as much to do with our future as does love

Volvo Farmer

May you always have success in your quest to irritate those who you despise. -Ben Goode
[ Parent ]



Re: More Climate change (3.00 / 0) (#33)
by wdyasq on Sun Jan 6th, 2008 at 12:26:39 AM MST
(User Info)

Best reports I have seen say 'peak' with hit about 2030 and plateau for ~20 years. While the peons (look in the mirror if you ware wondering of who I speak) are bracing for higher costs, the major automotive transportation companies are building plants. It is quite possible (effing sure bet) they know more than a bunch of politicians, failed ones included.

Governments have never been responsible. As far as I know they have never done anything promoting business other than war.

Politicians are quick to blame and slow to accept responsibility. One only has to glance at the 'oil situation' and see they run in a reactive rather than a pro-active mode. They get their life blood from subjecting those who are under their influence to vote for them.

One quick little observation, the government created 'environmental protection'. The blame is on the 'oil companies' for not building refineries. The 'environmental protection' agencies required the addition of MTBE to the gasoline supplies but accept no blame for it getting into the ground water. The problem was known for years before any action was taken.

It seems to me the folks promoting this warming idea are those that are profiting from the regulations and grants attached. I could be right. They may be a bunch of scoundrels. And, all political parties in the US are defiantly guilty.

I suspect any solutions will come from private industry, not government meddling.

Ron
Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen
[ Parent ]



Re: More Climate change (3.00 / 0) (#36)
by finnsawyer on Sun Jan 6th, 2008 at 09:20:36 AM MST
(User Info)

I agree with you about the solutions coming from private industry rather than the Government.  It happens that the auto companies have discovered PM motors.  They have found that if they take things such as the power steering off of the belt they get a small improvement in efficiency.  I suspect that at some point the alternator will be direct drive.  Well, with hybrids it becomes a moot point.

I've wondered in the recent past with crude oil prices near $100 per barrel what is going on at the Alberta Oil or Tar Sands.  Well, a Mining Engineer I know says the journals he reads state they are going great guns in increasing output.  Lucky Canadians.  They get to finance their Socialized Medicine at we American's expense.
GeoM
[ Parent ]



Re: More Climate change (3.00 / 0) (#37)
by electrondady1 on Sun Jan 6th, 2008 at 12:22:40 PM MST
(User Info)

the tar sands are under the control of american oil companies
as are the politicians the the oil companies have helped put in place .
we pay for our universal health care with our taxes.
the tar sands are at the point were thy are the greatest emitter of co2 in my nation
our prime minister and his government is in a minority position.
his popularity has fallen drastically since the climate change summit in bali
i think we will have a new government by next summer.

[ Parent ]


More Climate change | 43 comments (43 topical, 0 editorial)

Menu
· create account
· How to use the board
· FAQs
· search the board
· Google search the board
· Old Otherpower Board

Login
Make a new account
Username:
Password:

Powered by Scoop
You must be a registered user to post here. It's easy and free, and the link is on the upper right side of your page.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Postings are owned by the poster, but may be deleted or moved at the ADMIN's sole discretion. The Rest © 2003 Forcefield.
You can Email the board ADMIN here. PLEASE include the username you signed up with!