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More Buck Converter Question | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 editorial)
Re: More Buck Converter Question (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by martin1 on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 03:00:55 PM MST
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Yes I realize that the control is more complicated than just knowing the speed but I like to deal with one thing at the time. Right now it is getting the speed signal right. Next I will be working on the cubic function but I already have some ideas on that part.

Maybe if you skip the low part of the wind curve it is possible to use a square function instead. If that is true than perhaps it's possible to use a square root function on the current signal going to the batteries and than use the speed signal as it is as feed forward to the PWM circuit.

The goal is not to lower cut in. It's more like getting a higher cut in. The stator was made for 48 V but I want to use it for 12 V.

[ Parent ]



Re: More Buck Converter Question (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by Flux on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 04:22:05 PM MST
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In the perfect world you need a cubic function. In real life for the input power to track the cube of speed then with the typical losses of a small machine it does work out quite close to tracking the output power to speed squared.

That is that way I do it. I take speed and use a multiplier to get a voltage proportional to speed squared. I assume battery volts is constant so output power is proportional to current.

I use a servo loop to track the current to the speed squared reference so that my output power tracks the square of the speed.

I also find that my props work best with falling tsr with wind speed but other props may not behave the same way. I am inclined to think that most as constructed here do behave that way and it is one of the reasons why the direct matching scheme works better than it otherwise would. In any case props are very tolerant and any reasonable match to the ideal loading will be so much better than no attempt so absolute perfection in the tracking is not very necessary.

Flux.

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Re: More Buck Converter Question (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by martin1 on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 04:50:25 PM MST
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Thank you Flux. It's nice to know that a square function is good enough since it is so much easier to make than a cubic function.

I don't understand what you mean by servo loop. Do you have some additional circuitry between the current feedback and the PWM?

[ Parent ]



Re: More Buck Converter Question (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by Flux on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 01:18:17 AM MST
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I sum the speed squared voltage and the voltage proportional to current in an error amplifier and feed the error signal to the pwm.  Perhaps this was what you had in mind, it is just a servo loop as used for any analogue feedback control.

This way the current is proportional to the reference signal.

Interesting things to watch for are that if the "speed squared" signal limits then the mill goes to constant current ( run away and avoid it). If the current signal limits then it aims for constant speed and that is nice to hold the things under control and induce a measure of stall at the furling point.

For those trying to follow this but not completely understanding, it is no way a mppt controller. It is a controller to force an alternator power out to follow speed cubed at the input. It has to be set up to match a given machine. The set up is not difficult, you have to set the pwm at cut in ( error amplifier offset) and set the current gain of the current amplifier to get the correct pwm at full load.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: More Buck Converter Question (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by martin1 on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 07:36:35 AM MST
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Yes I will do it like that. It's far more simple than constantly searching for the maximum current output. I don't know if that is even possible.

[ Parent ]


Re: More Buck Converter Question (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by scottsAI (user name at eml dot cc) on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 08:26:43 PM MST
(User Info)

Martin1,

Recently posted on Solar MPPT controller design. Function ended up maxing only current. Controller Cycle time on solar panel could be relatively fast, as in fraction of a second.

With wind maxing out only current should work also. Have not spent much time on the thinking. Realizing the delay loop is much longer than solar. At Lower power, longer control loop delays.

Since your speed is based on loading I wold skip it. Maximize on current going into the battery. Forget everything else (as a MPPT function, pay attention to other things for battery charging controller:).

My back ground is Micro, so I would recommend using intelligence in a micro to control this wind MPPT.

Have fun,
Scott.

[ Parent ]



Re: More Buck Converter Question (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by martin1 on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 at 10:18:09 PM MST
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I'm not prepared to use a micro in this project. I've just recently picked up PIC programing so this project will be all analog or perhaps a mix. It make sense what you are saying about the delay being longer for wind than solar. It must take some time for the turbine to respond to load changes.

Now I'm thinking of using a digital potentiometer to deal with the delay. It could go up or down almost like a regulator with an integrating search.

[ Parent ]



Re: More Buck Converter Question (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by scottsAI (user name at eml dot cc) on Tue Oct 28th, 2008 at 01:10:57 AM MST
(User Info)

Martin1,

Not surprised you say that.
After the fact the software is much easier to change vs hardware.
Intelligence in micro is superior to analog logic.
Everything has a price. Micro is typically cheaper than analog logic.

In the mid 70's fist used a micro.
This summer for a project selected a "New one".
Figured it would take two weeks to learn and write the page of code. No biggie.
A month later still learning, little writing. Documentation is honorable!-(
6 weeks coding completed. Wow, way off on that one.

Have fun,
Scott.

[ Parent ]



More Buck Converter Question | 21 comments (21 topical, 0 editorial)

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