Rest assured that we are reading this thread up here on the mountain, are discussing it, and that we feel your pain. We are also completely swamped with building wind turbine kits, writing a book, and giving seminars to teach people how to build wind turbines in exotic foreign countries like Nicaragua and Wisconsin. Without volunteer editors like TomW (how many years has it been now, Tom?) we'd have shut this board down years ago. We are also trying to deal with the fact that this board has grown WAY to big for its software, so that people can't even order our products or read our articles for 1-8 minutes at the top of every hour.
The whole idea of the 'Diaries' section in the first place was kinda like Playboy magazine, or the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition -- you don't HAVE to read it, but you can if you want to! It's not included in 'Everything' on the main menu. And as long as it didn't contain porno or perpetual motion, we'd let it ride.
That seems to be becoming a problem now. We'll discuss it, and yes, as Tom said, changes are slow here. In fact, we'll get to discuss it with him in person in about 6 weeks, over some beers....a good thing, because he's the main one that is catching all the inappropriate content for us.
Basically, any policy changes here (like starting to clamp down on diary content) mean more work for all of us. We'd rather that people would just get along. Brian R doesn't have any special mojo here, but he's a rare graduate of one of our wind turbine construction seminars so we know him personally, and as was pointed out, he's a 'doer' and not just a talker. So we tend to listen, to a point. Sometimes I read his diaries, but often I don't. And it appears he just chimed in to say he would tone it down.
If something is truly offensive, email us or catch TomW on otherpower IRC, tho usually he catches everything bad within minutes of it being posted. We can come down with an iron fist if needed, but we'd rather not. And we'll discuss clamping down on diary content, too.
DAN F (ADMIN)
Volvo Farmer
May you always have success in your quest to irritate those who you despise. -Ben Goode [ Parent ]
My opinion - yes, I could see a problem if lots of folks started posting diaries like this. I felt that Boss (Bryan) wasn't too far out of line - diaries are an open sort of catagory where off topic stuff is/has always been allowed to some degree. I honestly - didn't read lots of Boss's stuff (its long and I have limited time) but he basically only posted a new diary once a week which didn't bother me. things that are intolerable in my opinion (even in diaries) - foul language (again - somebody brought it up - it's against google rules and not appropriate for kids) - and any discussion of overunity.
When Bryan was up here he asked if he could post his newsletter on fieldlines and I said 'sure'. And, after feedback from everyone here, he has evidently decided on his own accord to stop, which I think is a good choice considering.
I think it's kind of funny, I expect if most folks here could actually meet Bryan they'd find they had lots in common. Overall I think we have a large community with a common interest here, I think diaries could be a nice place to share about other stuff in life.
What bothers me more than his diary around here... postings of unrealistic ideas, intolerance, name calling, rudeness etc. But it is an open discussion board and all this stuff is typical I think. TomW and other editors do a pretty good job of keeping it together I think.
I have proven myself many times over to be a 'pushover' and too tolerant/too patient with 'rogue' users. Bryan is not a troll - or anything like JCP etc, so folks who made those comparisons/accusations were just dead wrong. I hope he continues to post here but more specifically about his RE projects.[ Parent ]
Despite only one diary a week, the followups were almost daily. 11 in 14 days. Those surfing the "recent activity" page, got an eye full of BMN every morning, which is probably why the cards fell where they did.
Thanks for weighing in, it's good to know what the Admin thinks, so as not to get crosswise to your wishes.
"Basically, any policy changes here (like starting to clamp down on diary content) mean more work for all of us. We'd rather that people would just get along. Brian R doesn't have any special mojo here, but he's a rare graduate of one of our wind turbine construction seminars so we know him personally, and as was pointed out, he's a 'doer' and not just a talker.--DAN F (ADMIN)" This is why I stated earlier " If Admin does nothing I think its okay.-JW"
"What bothers me more than his diary around here... postings of unrealistic ideas, intolerance, name calling, rudeness etc.-DanB"
"I have proven myself many times over to be a 'pushover' and too tolerant/too patient with 'rogue' users. Bryan is not a troll - or anything like JCP etc, so folks who made those comparisons/accusations were just dead wrong. I hope he continues to post here but more specifically about his RE projects.-DanB"
Now, its very clear that we are not getting off that easy.
As I said way-earler, Im sorry, but when any dialog causes the systematic board wide reaction, theres only one debackel that one could come to remember. Yes thats right the 'jcp' debackel'.
But seriously, TomW, is a really good and fair guy. Perhaps, ' I ' meant to say, Bryan 'was acting like a jcp' but didnt mean to imply 'that he was one'....
Honestly it was my gut feeling, that posting's such as this could occur, if bryan, wasnt at least warned, "hay watch out you can start a fire with that thing!" Because I was there, I knew, that its wise to point out, that sometimes you have to be thick skinned around here.
The point im trying to make is that, we all disagree from time to time, as we take time to get to know one another, we do find out we all have much in common, that is worth something. When I entered this phorum, it was at the height of the so-called jcp-Debacle' And I saw DanB get seriously pissed off at JCP...
So I can totally understand how I could be dead wrong about Bryan.
Just remember I did not start this thread.
But when someone implies 'the goverment giveth and taketh awathh'
this french-kissing of political beliefs, is not only mis-guided but also quite arrogant AND misleading, By Boss.
As TomW eludes too, 'anyone with some common sense', could see that those remarks, were 'too politically charged' Ov, coarse that type of reaction is going to happen.
Personally I think Bryan is a good man.
I have interacted with him before and I think he's a good fellow...
It does take quite-abit to pipe-up and say 'I will cool it'.
Something I find strange is that The only reason I made the jcp remark, is because Boss was considering taking a leave of absence or something like that. Like saying this is your last chance to interact with me. This was on one of his first postings, like saying, you guys could never get me.
Anyhow, we all decided here that he should hang around.
I think He will.
Just for the record, I consider myself more a 'cowboy' than a 'Rogue' :)
You guys really shouldnt have to get into all this, 'the dan's' ,
I just wanted say, members/user's that I have disagreed with in the past, are now people that I consider friends Like TomW and others. Ya, I made an effort, but it was woth it.
cheer's
JW [ Parent ]
Good post Mr. Cool Pants!
Simply because you decided to be a jerk...
Who are you referring to? Or are you just stirring up the muck [again]?
I just went and read all 50, wow, yes all 50 of your comments on this forum. I also read your One Diary and 2 semi topical story posts. Thats 2 years of posts.
You can find all this users' comments HERE to see for yourself.
Pretty funny, most of the comments are like this. Smart alec remarks.
Time to shine the light on the roaches again, I guess.
Do you RE or just stir things up?
Time to put up or shut up. What RE things do you have going on that you would like to share? Oh, none?
Or you can whine to DanB that I am destroying his business [again].
Just curious what your purpose is here?
I guess the world needs Agent Provacatuers, too but I think we have plenty here.
Before you attack me [or anyone] again, I suggest you browse through my 5+ years of posts and catalog the true diversity of topics including my comments, stories and Diaries about stuff I do.
Frankly, I am sick of it.
TomW
"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain[ Parent ]
Hope your over your flue and have a Happy Easter![ Parent ]
Mark [ Parent ]
They let me in free, didn't even bring beer. Twice. Even put me up and fed me the first time. Not to mention sent me home with a complete turbine. I hear they have a waiting list now with all their popularity, tho.
Just my experience.
Another minor point is, with that crew, a 30 pack won't hardly settle them into chairs. I think they believe real beer comes in "barrels".
I guess they let me in because I don't drink beer so there was more for them.
Definitely be worth the beer to sit down with them. A true bunch of good folks.
The wife was getting itchy.
You seem like a whiskey man.Can do [ Parent ]
Gimme back my bullet's'
"Would be cool to meet you guys or do i have to pay full price :v) -Mark"
I find this remark offensive VWHAT-man,
I wasnt going to mention this, but what the hell.
I want to be very clear, that this, is only my opinion, not necessarily a suggestion(safe harbor statement :)
As a user of this site, I would not mind paying an annual due of $5.00 , say for new users the dues would be off-set by 6 months.
Now look, I wouldnt mind paying 5bucks a year to be able to participate here, but I cannot speak for anyone but myself.
Here's what I propose. Perhaps(and that's a big perhaps)
The board/forum could be merged in to a LLC OR LLP with wondermagnet, let alone a NPO(not for profit) company.
I say TomW and Kurt, are appointed as directors and are able to have some-sort of a salary, for there moderation efforts. In addition they could select both hardware and software upgrades.
In this way, the Dan's could truly experience the board as users, yet be considered the founding fathers. Im not kidding at all. The board would never be blocked from view, in theory, but to be able to post a contribution, this should be made to help the board self-sustain. If your in it for the long-haul.
I trust Tom and Kurt's judgement that much. Besides who else volunteers as much time and patience as these 2 guys? Not to mention they are always available on IRC. Its a big plus.
Again, this is just my own wild-idea, In no way am I suggesting that we would be better off one way or the other. Just that things are possible...
I would like to say, I believe in professional courtesy, I have never-ever seen DanB, act in less than a professional way, ever. There's alot to be said for that.
JW[ Parent ]
Whats your handle on IRC?
We kid alot there.Tom,Kurt and many others give me crap all the time.
My comment was off topic to ease the tension.
Vwhatman :v)
In the back of my mind, I was worried about such a possible response.
"Whats your handle on IRC?"
JW, as always. I have not been in there for quite sometime, and you would not catch me dead in there right now :)
Actually a great idea.
However.
I cannot be bought.
I can, however, be rented.
My main "fear" is the resource will go away for some rather easily avoided technical reason [database meltdown] or whatever.
I actually only do this because I feel it needs to be done, I have the time and I really think this resource is important.
We have defended against the OU types, the Spammers and the trolls. Next battle seems to be mitigating the affects of our insane popularity. Its not evil or bad at all its just a natural force that needs to be manipulated to prevent it destroying things.
Frankly, I am not sure I would do it "for money" because that changes it drastically. I am far from wealthy but really want for nothing. An extra few bucks could always find a home in projects or goodies, of course.
Bottom line seems to be clear that we need to take some pro active action in order to preserve the world class resource we, as a community, have built.
I am all in favor of ideas we can toss in the mix, shake it up and see what settles out.
I do like the co-op type idea where it becomes community driven. I never was good at the money angle on stuff.
I hope this thread kicks out more ideas.
"Bottom line seems to be clear that we need to take some pro active action in order to preserve the world class resource we, as a community, have built.-TomW"
"I hope this thread kicks out more ideas.'
Well said...
I hope this thread kicks out more ideas. </quote>
Tom, I should probably, and would PM this to you, but again we bump against software, so I'll be my normal self and air it in public.
The last comment I read (3-22) from you in this thread calls into question someone's right to post here. I can deal with a troublemaker's dirty laundry being aired, however you went a great deal further in this case and compared his history here to yours, both in scope and breadth.
Don't do this. I realize it is your nature, but just don't. This behavior is in my nature as well, which is perhaps why I realize it's inappropriateness. It's a hard pill to swallow, but you are a moderator and should tread a higher path than the forum riff-raff.
Just my late night ramblings, and I'm on your side. Just turn up the niceness button a few notches, as anyone in a visibly public position of power might choose to do to improve his stature.
The point was he implied "All I post" was negativity. Thats bull and the comparison was to illuminate the fact that he, not I, has very narrow posting subjectivity.
Perfectly valid method to enlighten those reading why a line of comments may or may not be valid..
I don't go crying to DanB to do "X". This guy did exactly that, more than once.
Thats in the history and it is not exactly a secret or private info. Anyone can go read the historical stuff.
I find it perfectly legitimate to cite a users history when trying to decipher their true intent.
I know it bugs folks when facts get in the way of their fantasy world.
Point taken and I only responded in order to clarify "why".
It is totally unfair to expect me to take grief from users simply because I am an Editor. In fact, nearly every forum I visit, folks attacking admins in any way are often eliminated with prejudice. That doesn't happen here. Maybe it should?
Maybe I should be required to wear a couple signs that say "open season" and "Assault with impunity"? I frankly don't care who thinks I should play meek and mild, I will defend myself as required. If they want "PC" they are dealing with the wrong Man. Period, End Quote. Despite common misconception, I do not get to do as I please, I have my orders and guidelines.
Because you brought it up in public, I responded in public even tho its not really the place for it.
I actually could not see a post here where I "call into question someone's right to post here." So far anyone can post anything [up to a point] and I find that to be a part of the problem here lately.
Hey Tom, want to come and head a customer service and multi-level marketing team in, um, "free" internet (we'll put the customers' children in workhouses to pay for it) and, um, double-glazing and dodgy foreign investments? Our target marget will be those with a little knowledge and a huge sense of entitlement! B^>
Rgds
Damon[ Parent ]
I just had to go and read back just exactly where you (VolvoFarmer) 'gave him (TomW) hell'. Must be me but I can't find it. All I see is sincere, carefully worded criticism with which I agree. And which I told our editor in IRC that I agreed with what you wrote in your comment.
After all, I thought our editor was a man and could take criticism without taking it all personally. Guess I was wrong. After having to undergo a few insults by our manly editor I walked out of IRC. Why continue to let myself be insulted, after all.
I am on the lookout for another board where the editors obey the house rules. I have left my IRC gallery in place (after weeding out the fluff) as I think there may still be some information interesting to others, and as I've linked to it in my posts/stories/diaries, as I -hate- dead links myself.
Tom, mate, take care. And no worries, I won't let the door hit me where the good lord split me, as you love to say.
Peter. A.k.a. 'Bleeding moronic Dutchman'.
<end open letter>[ Parent ]
Hey, Dinges. This is NOT the thread I was referring to at all.
I do NOT appreciate you using an out of context conversations with me from IRC to attack me here like some gradeschool he said she said... You stomped off before I finished in there.
Too bad you couldn't deal with it man to man but had to drag it in here.
This is your misunderstanding from the start. So let it go or deal with me rather than this drama queen bull.
Been nice having you if you go.
At risk of drifting off thread...
Nah, strictly a teatotaller these days, but, in my day, I was either drinking Black velvet, Wild Turkey or the homebrewed stuff the uncles made in Missouri. Beer chaser.
You [nor most others] would not have liked my liquor drenched younger self. I have been reformed a lot in the last 25 years or so. Haven't been in a bar fight or jail cell since i stopped boozing.
Means more liquor for others I spose.
A good sit down is fun without the booze, too. I am perfectly capable of telling lies sober myself. Big ones, too!
I got to bed last night at around 1am. Woke up this morning at around 11am. To see my wife off to work, No coffee, this morning.
About these Barrels of beer, I do have a half keg at my house. Saves me tonns of money. Generally it lasts for over a month with friends over( holds face to stop laughter).
The reference to 'Gimme back my bullets' ,this is the title to a song,(a quote from lyrics) "HAVE ANOTHER WHISKEY TURN THE BATTLESHIP AROUND" im pretty sure no-one got this...
Tom,
I too have gotten into trouble drinking before. But I still drink, I think in moderation its ok. But I have encountered groups, that dont drink anymore. I think that those people are ok, only we ourselves no our own internal limits, it truly is a choice(personal). Safety is my goal, I must be responsible for any actions that we/I may take. I just wanted to find a way, to say, I support your best judgement.
I have many freinds that enjoy my company, whether sober or not.
Ive been been waiting since yesterday, for an opportunity to say that, oh well...
I just could not take the pressure any longer and had to blurt that out. :)
Time to cook dinner for the wife, before she gets home at 7pm, and do that cleaning I promised this morning. Pork-chops on the grill, its raining here in miami now, got to decide if im going to wait for the rain to quit, or drag the barbaque grill, under the porch. decisions, decisions.
Best to all
BAND- Flock of seagull's
SONG- It's my life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkBb46Q5ddI[ Parent ]
Here, this ones closer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfDnmOV5Sko&feature=related
As a matter of fact, I did not even realize that one could link a you-tube song 'uploaded', Id like you here some genuine "bluegrass" from some events?
Anyhow, here's the original song "Its my life" from a more modern artist. Best I could do on such short notice :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEAzxDMYrWU
JW
[ Parent ]
