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Bluefields Nicaragua 'report' | 45 comments (45 topical, editorial)
Re: Bluefields Nicaragua 'report' (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 at 06:26:52 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

Glad everyone is back. I KNOW you had fun. :-) Im curious to see what Hugh has to say also.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF


Re: Bluefields Nicaragua 'report' (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by scoraigwind (magnet@scoraigwind.co.uk) on Sat Mar 8th, 2008 at 12:37:13 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk

Well I have obviously been following this with interest and I did respond to the Nicaraguan guys about this already.  I regret that as Dan says, there is very little safety margin with my 12 foot design.  Nowadays I actually use 16 inch magnet rotors and thicker wire.  Bigger magnets work well as a fix for the existing rotor size but are a relatively expensive solution compared to making the rotors/stator bigger.  And a bigger stator has more surface area for cooling.

There are plenty of things to go wrong with the axial flux turbines (as with all small windmills) especially in a tropical climate where corrosion of metal and electrics, saturation and rotting of timber, high temperature and humidity make for challenging conditions.  It's going to be interesting to watch blueEnergy get on top of these issues.  Dan and his crew certainly gave them a leg up in the process.

The machine frame built from pipe is very elegant to look at, and looks are important.  Pity about the galvanised pipe.

Using 1 1/4" pipe for the tail without any bracing is rather too optimistic.  My old A frame tail design is extremely robust but so heavy that it requires a very small angle of inclination.  This makes it rather vulnerable to small inclinations in the tower changing the furling behaviour.   And soggy plywood makes it worse!  I like using a 20 degree angle now, and 1 1/2" pipe works nicely as a single boom tail for the 12 footer.

I have had a lot of new ideas since the 2005 edition of my plans (How to Build a Wind Turbine) and I am trying to get them into print.  The problem is to get the process finished.  I am preparing a 'wind turbine recipe book' for publication this year which will have my updated design ideas.  Using these ideas in courses helps me find out what works for people.  Its mainly about making the machines easier to build rather than improving their performance at all.  And keeping well within the envelope so as to prevent burnouts!
Hugh Piggott http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk
[ Parent ]



Re: Bluefields Nicaragua 'report' (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Sat Mar 8th, 2008 at 09:50:42 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

Hi Hugh - thank you for your comments.

' I regret that as Dan says, there is very little safety margin with my 12 foot design.'

I tend to feel the same way about the 10' machines we've been building for the last couple years with 1" x 2" block magnets.  Most are fine but there have been a couple burnouts and the safety factor is small.

 ' Nowadays I actually use 16 inch magnet rotors and thicker wire.  Bigger magnets work well as a fix for the existing rotor size but are a relatively expensive solution compared to making the rotors/stator bigger.'

I'm not convinced that its a more expensive solution actually.  There is a compromise there.  Larger magnets make for a smaller/lighter weight machine.  Less steel, less resin, less copper, less time to manufacture (slightly) - but  yes, higher magnet cost.

There was also the issue of trying to save time/cost using existing molds - magnet rotors that are already cut out etc...

 ' And a bigger stator has more surface area for cooling.'

That is true, although I think we cut the heat in stator in half which is a big safety factor.

'There are plenty of things to go wrong with the axial flux turbines (as with all small windmills) especially in a tropical climate where corrosion of metal and electrics, saturation and rotting of timber, high temperature and humidity make for challenging conditions.  It's going to be interesting to watch blueEnergy get on top of these issues. '

Yes, the climate is tough there.  They get more corrosion in 1 year than we do in 20 I think.

 'Dan and his crew certainly gave them a leg up in the process.'

I hope so.  Another week or two would've been great.  I am glad though that they plan to come here in the summer (some of them).

'I have had a lot of new ideas since the 2005 edition of my plans (How to Build a Wind Turbine) and I am trying to get them into print.  The problem is to get the process finished.  I am preparing a 'wind turbine recipe book' for publication this year which will have my updated design ideas.  Using these ideas in courses helps me find out what works for people.  Its mainly about making the machines easier to build rather than improving their performance at all.  And keeping well within the envelope so as to prevent burnouts!'

Cant wait to see the new books!!!!

[ Parent ]



Re: Bluefields Nicaragua 'report' (3.00 / 0) (#24)
by zrmb13 on Sat Mar 8th, 2008 at 11:43:11 AM MST
(User Info)

They might try axle grease on the cables.  They grease the cables on the cranes on ships, those cables are exposed to salt spray constantly and I never see rust.  I bet regreasing once a year when the genny is down for annual checkup would do the job.

DB

[ Parent ]



Re: Bluefields Nicaragua 'report' (3.00 / 0) (#36)
by blueEnergy group (contact@blueenergygroup.org) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 11:58:17 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.blueenergygroup.org

I too look forward to seeing the new books!

Cheers,
MJ
--
blueEnergy
www.blueenergygroup.org
[ Parent ]



Re: Bluefields Nicaragua 'report' (3.00 / 0) (#35)
by blueEnergy group (contact@blueenergygroup.org) on Tue Mar 25th, 2008 at 11:56:50 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.blueenergygroup.org

Hugh, after finally getting a chance to delve into the calculations I can now see that the original 12 ft design does have little to no safety margin.  That being said, we at blueEnergy are equally responsible for not having built our machines to a high enough quality standard, thereby bringing extra problems on ourselves.  We are not a huge group of wind experts, rather we are an organization working in very difficult conditions, trying to provide opportunities to people who had none before. We are constantly improving but we are certainly guilty of not having a good enough understanding of what required tight tolerances and what could be done more loosely. We start our project without the level of intuition needed to know which parts needed to be paid close attention too.  

But we are getting better at this.  And our core capacity level and infrastructure are growing, allowing us to build better quality machines.  We still have a long way to go for sure, but given the challenges and roadblocks we have faced, I have very happy with our progress.  If you can continue to support us with your legendary patience and expertise, I know we'll get there.
--
blueEnergy
www.blueenergygroup.org
[ Parent ]



Re: Bluefields Nicaragua 'report' (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by hvirtane (hannu_markus_virtanen(at)yahoo(dot)com) on Sat Mar 8th, 2008 at 01:41:10 AM MST
(User Info) http://web.archive.org/web/20050404022706/www.cc.jyu.fi/~hvirtane/cooker/

making the rotors/stator bigger.
And a bigger stator has more surface area for cooling.

This sounds a really good idea.

What about some materials like (even) sand or ceramic powder added into the stator resin?

-Hannu

[ Parent ]



Bluefields Nicaragua 'report' | 45 comments (45 topical, 0 editorial)

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