Go to Otherpower.com Home Page Go to Forcefield Shopping Cart Go to Wondermagnet.com Home Page
Front Page - [Homebrewed Electricity-- (wind) (solar) (hydro) (steam) (controls) (storage) (mechanical)] - Classifieds - Site News
Everything - Newbies - [Remote Living-- (housing) (heat) (light) (water)] - Rants & Opinion - Diaries - Our Products
Flow diagramm for combined water and space heating | 19 comments (19 topical, editorial)
Re: Flow diagramm for combined water and space hea (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by mbeland on Mon May 5th, 2008 at 11:36:25 AM MST
(User Info)

Hi Gary,

Very interesting point. Everything seems right with your reasoning. The thoughts that arise to me are the following:

  1. - If there is no limit imposed by the manufacturer, then you could simplify the valve configuration and simply have two valves controlling a bypass through the storage tank. Otherwise, you need 4 valves don't you??
  2. - Your scheme would require some kind of optimization method to chose when to alternate between the two heat sources. Complicates things... I need to check the specifications and ask the manufacturer what are their proposed solutions.
  3. - I need to check if my circulating pump is steel or brass because if made of steel it could be affected by corrosion due to oxygen renewal in the non pressurized tank.
Thanks for your contribution to my education about solar heaters.

Martin
Eau, soleil, le vent
[ Parent ]



Re: Flow diagramm for combined water and space hea (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by GaryGary (gary@BuildItSolar.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 12:41:39 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.BuildItSolar.com

Hi Martin,

I put the sketch that our local HVAC guy Eric drew up for me here:

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SpaceHeating/SolarShed/AddBoiler.htm

It seems like a pretty simple way to go, and he does a lot of radiant floor systems (but no solar ones so far)-- so I think he knows the area well.  This is what he is thinking about for his home when he adds solar.

Have not thought a lot about the control, but maybe a two stage thermostat could select solar for the first stage, and then switch to the boiler when the 2nd stage is needed.
Heat pumps often have two stage thermostats, so its not uncommon.
You would want to have some way to go right to stage two when the solar tank is too cool to provide any heat.

Right on the pump, you should use stainless or bronze.  I use a Taco bronze pump -- they offer most of their pumps with a choice of case metal.

Gary
Gary gary@BuildItSolar.com www.BuildItSolar.com
[ Parent ]



Re: Flow diagramm for combined water and space hea (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by mbeland on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 06:54:41 AM MST
(User Info)

I don't quite understand. In this scheme, everything seems to be in series.

Martin
Eau, soleil, le vent
[ Parent ]



Re: Flow diagramm for combined water and space hea (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by GaryGary (gary@BuildItSolar.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 08:44:25 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.BuildItSolar.com

Hi,
After looking at more closely, I think the label I added to part (1) to remind myself what it did is wrong -- its a pump, not valve.

Number (1) is just the regular pump in the boiler that circulates water, not an electrically controlled valve as the label says.

So, when you want the boiler to supply heat: energize the boiler pump(1), deenergize the solar tank pump(3).   Boiler heated water flows from the boiler, through the floor loops (on left of diagram), and back to the boiler.

When you want heat from the solar tank: energize the solar pump (3), deengergize the boiler pump (1).  Water then flows from the solar tank, through pump 3, out through the floor loops, and back to the solar tank via the top line.

Check valve (2) prevents the solar pump from pushing water through the boiler in the wrong direction when in boiler mode.  The check built into pump (3) prevents the boiler from pushing water back through pump (3) and into the solar tank in the wrong direction when in solar mode.

Maybe its confusing that the floor loops are not completely shown?  The four floor loop lines on the bottom left of the diagram go around and connect to the 4 lines coming into the top left of the diagram.

Gary
Gary gary@BuildItSolar.com www.BuildItSolar.com
[ Parent ]



Re: Flow diagramm for combined water and space hea (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by GaryGary (gary@BuildItSolar.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 07:16:12 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.BuildItSolar.com

Oops!

This paragraph:
Check valve (2) prevents the solar pump from pushing water through the boiler in the wrong direction when in boiler mode.  The check built into pump (3) prevents the boiler from pushing water back through pump (3) and into the solar tank in the wrong direction when in solar mode.

Should read like this:
Check valve (2) prevents the solar pump from pushing water through the boiler in the wrong direction when in SOLAR mode.  The check built into pump (3) prevents the boiler from pushing water back through pump (3) and into the solar tank in the wrong direction when in BOILER mode.

Gary
Gary gary@BuildItSolar.com www.BuildItSolar.com
[ Parent ]



Re: Flow diagramm for combined water and space hea (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by mbeland on Fri May 9th, 2008 at 11:15:10 AM MST
(User Info)

I think I get it. It could be a nice way to do without valves. GREAT!

Thanks
Martin
Eau, soleil, le vent
[ Parent ]



Flow diagramm for combined water and space heating | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 editorial)

Menu
· create account
· How to use the board
· FAQs
· search the board
· Google search the board
· Old Otherpower Board

Login
Make a new account
Username:
Password:

Powered by Scoop
You must be a registered user to post here. It's easy and free, and the link is on the upper right side of your page.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Postings are owned by the poster, but may be deleted or moved at the ADMIN's sole discretion. The Rest © 2003 Forcefield.
You can Email the board ADMIN here. PLEASE include the username you signed up with!