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Y connected ? and transformer efficiency ? | 10 comments (10 topical, editorial)
Re: Y connected ? and transformer efficiency ? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by Flux on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 at 01:20:32 AM MST
(User Info)

Not sure about the alternator connection without seeing a diagram. It sounds as though it is a double half wave rectifier where a positive line is half wave rectified with respect to neutral and a similar negative line is done. Useful for things that need a split positive and negative supply.

For a single supply it is the same as a bridge rectifier when the single load is taken from plus to minus. May be an advantage in cases where dual supplies are needed but otherwise it's just a 3 phase bridge and the neutral is irrelevant.

Now the transformer bit.
I feel certain that the transformers in the inverters you are referring to are high frequency ferrite devices. In general the inverters using power frequency transformers have lower efficiency.

I suppose within reason a transformer can have as high an efficiency as you want if you make it big enough and costly enough. You can reduce copper loss to negligible proportions by using thick enough wire. You can't entirely loose the iron loss, but by keeping flux density low ( lots of turns/volt) and using the highest grades of "iron" possible you may be able to get a low power transformer up to low 90s%

Small electrical machines are inherently larger in proportion and less efficient than their monster power station brothers. I think Joestue hit it exactly with the cooling bit. To be practical and cost effective for most applications the thing needs to be efficient enough to survive its temperature rise. A 1kVA transformer may be able to get rid of 15% loss easily enough. Trying to dissipate 15% of 50mVA is a very different problem. The cooling is a major issue for units running at over 98%.

Typical small transformers are probably considerably worse than many imagine with many cheap units coming in at below 80%. The average customer will not pay the price or accept something weighing 5 times as much to gain a few %.

The other factor is frequency, the lower the frequency the larger it becomes for a decent efficiency, but above about 250Hz the choice of iron becomes very critical. Many of the aircraft transformers are a fraction of the weight of the 60Hz things but the efficiency may be little better as once again they are optimised to be most cost effective for the job.

Typically you need to be up in the 10kVA region to see efficiencies in the 90% region with standard production devices.
Flux

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Re: Y connected ? and transformer efficiency ? (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Flux on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 at 02:14:49 AM MST
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Bob having looked again at your description I think the type of construction you are referring to is a "C" core design. Something that was common a while ago but seems to be less common these days.

As Joestue said the ideal core is a strip of grain oriented steel wound through the coil bobbin so the flux is along the grain axis. This is costly to manufacture and the usual compromise is a wound strip core cut in half and the faces polished. When tightly clamped together this comes close to the ideal but with some effects from the cut.

These are usually assembled in pairs side by side giving an effective "E" type construction.

To justify this more costly method it is invariably used with the best grade core materials. Mainly used for higher frequency ( 400Hz aircraft) equipment or for compact high performance power frequency devices. If made the same size as a standard unit the efficiency will be higher but it comes with a fair cost penalty. If the efficiency needs to be high and cost is not a factor then you may occasionally find them but most commercial units now seem to get by with a new type of conventional core material that has replaced the old silicon iron punchings ( likely a nickel alloy as it seems soft more like mumetal).

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Y connected ? and transformer efficiency ? (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by joestue on Mon Apr 28th, 2008 at 07:52:43 AM MST
(User Info)

Just to bring it to your attention, i disassembled a 10KV oil furnace ingniter transformer, it was a stamped elongated 'C' core construction, with windings on both sides, (I presume it ran continuously during operation).

non-aligned transformer iron has about 30% less loss in the rolling direction, (i'm no engineer so i don't remember the proper term here) By lengthening the core in this direction you can add a disproportional amount of copper. but its a 2-4% increase.

Another point to bring up is large transformers have a core built up from 15 or more sizes of steel, the core has about a 90% or better fill factor in a circular area, so the copper loss is 3.1415/4 or 78% that of a square form.

[ Parent ]



Y connected ? and transformer efficiency ? | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)

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