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Leaving freezer on /open | 26 comments (26 topical, editorial)
Re: Leaving freezer on /open (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by JW on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 08:05:13 PM MST
(User Info)

Hi All,

"If I leave a freezer door open and let it run for a few hours a day will it damage the freezer? I would like to build a foam box around it to trap the cool air that escapes. This is all run off solar to energy is not a concern. I just dont kwow what continuous use will do to my freezer. Thanks. -JW1111"

"A Refrigerator / Freezer makes more Hot Air than Cold Air -W o o f -={("

"Kind of like taking a car door off of a car and into the hot desert with you so that you can roll down the window to keep cool. -RichHagan"

I like that one Rich, :)

Ok,ok

Lets go back to the middle, shall we.

"Im off the grid and do not have the 12 amps or so required to power an air conditioner. What i had in mind was to build a foam insulation box around 300 cases of wine and put the freezer in there with the hot air from the unit venting outside of the box and the cool air from inside the unit is driven out into the box with a small fan. The unit is run off a dump load and only turns on for a few hours during peak daylight to keep my wine cool. I know it is not the best but air conditioning is hard to come by when your limited for power and have to come up with something in a pinch to save losing a small fortune. -JW1111"

Uknow, I once considered this same type of problem for brewing beer, Id like to run 4- 1/2 barrels at various stages of fermentation.

I found that sub-merging the barrels in 60*f water would do the trick. I got no problems with co2. Im sure this won't work for you, as the labels will most likely disintrigrate :).

 But I think you nailed it on head JW1111 (your not signing your posts so this is all I have to go on).

"Im off the grid and do not have the 12 amps or so required to power an air conditioner. -JW1111"

Im assuming there is some other reason you dont want to control humidity. Is this 12amps 120vac? whats the difference between that type of AC load and a fridge?

 You could always stick a 55gallon drum (or two, or more) filled with water, in the insulated room, and that would most likely work better that the open/fridge idea. No matter how to cooled the water in the drums, you would have way more cooling capacity during periods of low power.

 I have not done the calculations on how much btu capacity in tonns can be stored in two or more 55 gallon drums cooled to 40*f, but im sure its enough to out balence all the wine that your storing. If you get the wine 'AND' the water filled drums at the same temp in the insulated room, you could probably keep things under-control for like a week, providing the insulation in the room had a good enough R-factor.

 Oh, and, you dont want too, go back and forth into the room opening and closing the door every day. Perhaps a remotly located therometer with the sensor in the room might be a good suggestion.

 Somehow this reminds me of opening and closing the fridge door to check to see if the light go's out, when the door closes. :)

 Come to thing about it, better unscrew that lightbulb in the frige that your leaving the door open on. :)  

But to answer your question, no, it probably would not hurt the fridge that bad.

JW/Jeremy      :) :) :) :)


[ Parent ]



Re: Leaving freezer on /open (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by JW on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 09:14:59 PM MST
(User Info)

One other thing,

I casually mentioned R-factor/value for such an insulated room. My best guess is that one would have to use polyurethane foam with about an 8inch thickness. This can be easily spray'd on any surface, although such an application would require the use of 'scuba' breathing apparatus for anyone applying such an insulation within a confined space. The use of an aluminum-foil vapor-barrier on the outside is optional. As the layering process of 2-inch thich coats were applied on the inside of such a room, by the time you got to the last layer at 8in thick(after expansion of the foam), I would throw some 5/8inch thick 4ft by 8ft plywood sheets on the floor. this should be more than adequate to support floor loads of the weight of the wine, and cooling reservoirs, should all this be on a concrete foundation.

 Furthermore the arrangment with the door(s) is the problem of the designer.

Its not unheard-of for wine collections to be of substantial value...

"I know it is not the best but air conditioning is hard to come by when your limited for power and have to come up with something in a pinch to save losing a small fortune. -JW1111"

May I suggest an 8kw gas/diesel gen-set to cool things down, using a huge  AC wall-unit (air conditioner)running off-of 220vac. Actually, if you threw some dry bails of hay in there, you could most likely control humidity pretty easily using the wall unit.

Quite-frankly its a big job to get the (cooling)storage capacity your looking for, let alone whats possible with the small load capacity that you propose, but, it could be possible, if you have a good enough R-factor and you were just maintaining temp once the whole thing was already cooled down.

JW

[ Parent ]



Re: Leaving freezer on /open (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by JW on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 at 10:23:31 PM MST
(User Info)

I've put some futher thought into this, with regards to the fridge's cooling capacity. Atleast to maintain 55*f in an insulated room, and this # falls out of spec. I think 67*f is a more reasonable (#)number. But this depends on ambient temps around storage. Im figuring 90*f.

This is related to the 300 cases of wine.

"What i had in mind was to build a foam insulation box around 300 cases of wine and put the freezer in there with the hot air from the unit venting outside of the box and the cool air from inside the unit is driven out into the box with a small fan.
-JW1111"

What temp do you actually need to maintain the wine at JW1111? It does make a huge difference in relation to the hottest you expect to encounter with relation to ambient temps.

"What i had in mind was -and put the freezer in there -with the hot air from the unit venting outside of the box  -JW1111"

Yes this is obvious, not only would you have to break the system open, you'd have to lengthen the connection pipes to the condencer(the hot part of the system). So that the condencer of the fridge was outside the insulated zone.

"and the cool air from inside the unit is driven out into the box with a small fan.- JW1111"

The evaporator(cold part of the system) would most likely need some heatsinks welded to it, with a gtaw(tig) welder while you had the system discharged(most likely the evaporator is aluminum). But the idea of a fan re-circulating air over the modified evaporator, within the insulated room is okay.(obviously)

Providing you calculate the extra refrigerent needed, and not over-charge the system, you would be very close. Im guessing your using 134a.

However, if the system was never opened, you could not mount the heatsink to the evaporator, so you'd have less cooling surface area for your fan to pass air across.

Again, its very close. Depends on ambient temps and the temp you expect to maintain.

I see no problem with the wall unit, if its on re-circulating cooling mode for the cooling air, to chill things down, before your fridge idea is put on line. But you may find you need more cooling capacity than such a converted fridge can provide. Maybe not, but you will need the larger cooling capacity AC wall unit, to get things within a range that you can even find out.

One things for sure, the insulation will be the best money spent if you go thru all the trouble. You may have to go back and forth some, to get what you need out of the refridgeration systems.

All things considered, its going to be one hell of a project to get right.

JW


[ Parent ]



Leaving freezer on /open | 26 comments (26 topical, 0 editorial)

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