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Leaving freezer on /open | 26 comments (26 topical, editorial)
Re: Leaving freezer on /open (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by joestue on Wed Jun 11th, 2008 at 06:31:14 PM MST
(User Info)

some times I really wonder if some of you have even the slightest experience in this matter.

We have altosack's comment that duty cycle will somehow dammage the fridge. Next is spinningmagnets' comment that refridgerators are not capable of running continously, but industrial units are.

most of you all commented that the idea is stupid, because you assumed the user is actually going to open the door, and let it sit there...

A few things here...
Where I work, we have approximately 200 dehumidifiers, most were bought in the 90's, and aside from the ones that don't work, the rest have been running 24/7/365 since they were plugged in. about 50% of them do not work, but appear to function as if there is no freon in them, a bunch ice up, but still put out about half or so what the others do. The 100 or so that do work, still condense about 2 gallons of water a day, (when it rains outside, its a really dry environment normally), operating in an ambient temp around 75 degrees Fahrenheit. (btw they are made by whirlpool)

I should also mention the thousand or so air conditioners, most with a manufacture date of 1976-1980.
electrically they have had everything replaced, at least once, maybe 30% had a compressor replaced, these also operate 6-10 hours a day 7 days a week, 5 months out of the year.
The most reliable part is the heat/cool switch solenoid, the least is the two 1/2 hp 3 phase fan motors.

Last time I was in home depot, I calculated the COP of a few different brands of dehumidifiers from the stated pints of water per day, against the stated amperage draw. on my cellphone btw, but since it is impossible to assume the compressor operates continuously or not, the COP of 1.8-2.3 means nothing to me, but i suspect it is a little higher than that not including the temperature difference, also an unknown.

If we wish to breakdown a fridge compressor operating for say 20-30 minutes every 2 hours, as my maytag does, we can assume that the oil is 100% cycled through the system, if we assume that the compressor also reaches it's max temperature 10 minutes after it turns on, then the refrigerator is operating in continuous mode for about half the time the compressor is on.

This provides some interesting observations, first, the mechanical wear might be equally divided between static and non static conditions, this could even be planned this way, to maximize life...i dunno.
Electrically...well, who has ever seen a coil burned out, when exposed to an oxygen free environment, also, how many of you have tore apart a "burned out" compressor?

I am not in a position to do this, but I know some of you are. Go to the local recycling center, acquire a few broken refrigerators, fix one or more of them, (chances are it's no freon [leak], a clogged capillary [return to the recycling center], or the thermostat)

Benchmark the cooling performance, make it run 24/7 for a month, then do the same again...

I understand refrigerators aren't the same as heat pumps nor dehumidifiers, but those are just as easy to get as well, and would be more suted to opertion in the desired temp ranges.

one more thing, a friend of mine has a GE fridge, and it still works after 50+ years, I'll have to ask him how many or those years it was in use, but they number at least 25. A 5 minute google search found numerous reports of working antique fridges, granted a lot used sulfur dioxide....

In response to those saying this is not a good idea for insulative, cooling coil area, condenser proximity to the cold area, fridge with door open wtf, Why on earth would you want to do that type of responses...

This is not rocket science.
how much more effort does it take to destroy the shell surrounding condenser/evaporator and remove the fridge from the cooling system. if you ask me, the answer be 2 hours with some sheet metal sheers.

Use whatever you have available, but let it run for a week beforehand.

This is in no way intended to offend anybody, furthermore arguing on the internet..well you know. a photo of someone's burned out fridge is worth it's kilobytes in gold, and logbooks speak louder than what someone though they remembered.



Re: Leaving freezer on /open (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by JW1111 on Thu Jun 12th, 2008 at 08:52:04 AM MST
(User Info)

Thank you.  I know the supermarkets leave their freezers open all day long in the produce section.  So it does not take much of a stretch of the imagination to expand the idea a little further.  Thanks again.

[ Parent ]


Re: Leaving freezer on /open (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by elvin1949 (elvin1949@yahoo.com) on Thu Jun 12th, 2008 at 12:27:58 PM MST
(User Info)

JW1111
  After more reading and a small amount of thinking.
I think i have the fix for your problem.
  You already have what i suggested,so here goes.
First add about 4 more inches insulation to the walls.Second add about 6 more inches of insulation to the ceiling.
  Now for the good part find an OLD upright freezer.
They last forever [new=junk}take it apart.Put the compressor and condenser outside out of the weather and in the shade.Run your lines through the wall
and use the evaporator and thermostat from a window A/C.Use a low volt fan {system volt} in the cellar.
{trying to keep system heat outside}Put a small battery bank outside next to the compressor for your dump load from main system and for power for
wine cooler.Wire it so nothing can run unless your main system is dumping.PUT A MANUAL OVER RIDE FOR
EMERGENCIES.
  If you live close enough to west-central Louisiana i have a Philco-Ford 10cuft freezer you can have for free.Door gasket and thermostat bad but you won't need those anyway.

later
Elvin  PS Most folk's will say i'm crazy [I-AM}
          When you recharge the system propane is
          a lot colder than 134a.  

[ Parent ]



Re: Leaving freezer on /open (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by JW on Thu Jun 12th, 2008 at 02:09:04 PM MST
(User Info)

Elvin, I remember the R-12 phase-out. Its known that propane can be interchanged in an r12 system. I have done it myself and it does work. Actually I used a mix of 25% isobutane and 75% propane.

 I also found it was slightly more efficient, however I observed this thru reduced compressor loading. A pully size change would have matched temperature as good as r12 im sure. I only charged auto a/c systems.

 As one may use propane based refrigerant, there is a decreased chance of the 'freon' based corrosives, which the dryer normally provides protections for when using r12. Also I saw a couple of refridgerators charged with the propane mix, the oil viscosity had to be reduced to accomodate the alternative freon. but all the systems I observed worked ok for a pretty long time(over 3 years)

 But im pretty sure propane based freon is not allowed, because of the possibilite of a leak developing in such a system charged with that. But it does infact work, interesting that you know that.

 I have never tried this with a system charged with 134a.

JW

[ Parent ]



Re: Leaving freezer on /open (3.00 / 0) (#23)
by elvin1949 (elvin1949@yahoo.com) on Thu Jun 12th, 2008 at 10:10:55 PM MST
(User Info)

  JW
 The old upright freezer has r12.
So when remaking it into a walkin it has to be converted to something.
 134a is easy to get and propane works better than the 134a and is easier to get.
  JW don't give your age away but when is the last time you saw a Philco-Ford deep freeze.
 later
Elvin

[ Parent ]


Re: Leaving freezer on /open (3.00 / 0) (#24)
by JW1111 on Fri Jun 13th, 2008 at 04:20:07 PM MST
(User Info)

"Wire it so nothing can run unless your main system is dumping"  My problem here is that I have to invert, and the inverter will not run off a Xantrex charge controller, the inverter will not reset.  And the lvd of the inverter is too low, 22.5v, with no way to adjust.  So i have to manually turn it on and off. Which I do during peak power.

[ Parent ]


Leaving freezer on /open | 26 comments (26 topical, 0 editorial)

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