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Inverter as dump load | 10 comments (10 topical, editorial)
Re: Inverter as dump load (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by ghurd on Mon Aug 18th, 2008 at 07:05:22 AM MST
(User Info)

"WHY".  Most controllers run way too fast for directly driving a light bulb, let alone an inverter.

It sounds like your controller controls the AC?
Maybe some kind of triac circuit to vary the watts fed to the heating elements.
Not sure what the inverter would think about that.
G-



Re: Inverter as dump load (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by ruairihev on Mon Aug 18th, 2008 at 08:57:58 AM MST
(User Info)

Thanks for the comment ghurd,
Yes, the controller controls the AC side. It basically turns on and off loads as they are needed on the AC side. The inverter will be connected directly to the battery with no fast controller between it and the battery. I will connect a fail safe device (xantrex C60 maybe) in parallel incase of unforseen circumstances.
I suppose its just like using an inverter normally in your home except instead of you manually flicking a switch and turning on a load the control circuit will do it for you!


[ Parent ]


Re: Inverter as dump load (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Flux on Mon Aug 18th, 2008 at 09:18:26 AM MST
(User Info)

Yes you can do as you suggest. The inverter will need to run all the time unless you manually shut it down in periods of no wind.

If your controller controls load after the inverter that is ok.

You can cover the case of inverter failure with a back up C60 controller to protect the battery if the inverter fails. Normally the C60 will not dump and it must have its own dump load. There is no way that the C60 can be used to feed the inverter but I think you understand that.

Many have proposed using an inverter after a C60 in place of the dump resistor and that is a definite no go area.

If you want heat alone then this is not a clever scheme as heating controllers work best with turbine volts proportional to wind speed, but it is not much worse than a fixed voltage link at higher volts.

I know absolutely nothing about your turbine, but direct connection to heaters with suitable control may not be out of the question as it would most likely be working well over 24v at times when you are producing significant power. Cut in at 24v would likely give you 70 -80v at full load and line losses may not be that bad.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Inverter as dump load (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by ghurd on Mon Aug 18th, 2008 at 09:25:01 AM MST
(User Info)

If the only point of the windmill is to heat the water, and the hysteresis is large enough (1V? 1.5V? 2V?), it may work.

If the elements are connected through relays, I don't expect the relays will last too long or be very reliable.  But I don't like relays cycling very fast for long periods.
SSRs would be better.

Might think about an adjustable LVD to shut the inverter down.
Say 3~5 days with no wind with the inverter pulling X-amps, could put a world of hurt on the batteries before the inverter shut down at 21V.
Plus the power the inverter uses during those times needs replaced, and that is power not used heating the water.
G-

[ Parent ]



Re: Inverter as dump load (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by ruairihev on Mon Aug 18th, 2008 at 10:16:03 AM MST
(User Info)

Thanks for the comments,
I realise now that I shouldn't have titled the post 'Inverter as dump load' but something more like 'Using an inverter to dump load'.

The LVD is a good idea that I will employ, also I think I will use SSR's as the relays will probably not last too long.
I had thought about direct connection but the controller side of it seemed difficult so I said I'd take the easier option in my opinion and use the AC side controlled inverter. If I feel brave in the future then I will try a direct connected heating wind turbine.

I know the answer to this but I need someone to tell me that in the long run its better to buy the pure sine wave inverter than the cheap MSW inverter? Its a difference of €250 versus €1000. But because its only being used for resistive elements the MSW might do the trick?

[ Parent ]



Re: Inverter as dump load (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by ghurd on Mon Aug 18th, 2008 at 10:30:29 AM MST
(User Info)

I think MSW would be fine for this.
Not sure 3000W is needed is the max load is 1500W.
I would probably go with a 1500W or 1750W.
If the windmill is 1KW, then dumping 1500W would be a rarity I think.

I might even change the 500W element to 250W.  Max load would be 1250W, then a 1500W inverter should handle it.  Here, about 1500W is where inverters start to get expensive faster, in $/W.  The savings may buy a TriStar?
G-

[ Parent ]



Re: Inverter as dump load (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Flux on Mon Aug 18th, 2008 at 10:46:45 AM MST
(User Info)

I agree with Ghurd completely. Sine wave inverter would be wasted for resistive load.In most cases the efficiency of pure sine is lower unless you pay a fortune.

Choose your load correctly and a 1500W inverter should do the job easily.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Inverter as dump load (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by ghurd on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 at 07:44:55 AM MST
(User Info)

For the LVD,
If the inverter has a regular rocker switch, then a small regular 24V relay with a high ohm coil can be paralleled with the switch.
The LVD will basically turn the switch (relay) off.  No need to deal with large amps in the cables.
(same idea as Speo's 'remote control inverter')
http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/4/11/5115/12104
G-

[ Parent ]


Inverter as dump load | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)

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