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Your Grandfather's Micro-Hydro | 15 comments (15 topical, editorial)
Re: Your Grandfather's Micro-Hydro (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by TheCasualTraveler (a.miklos@yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 19th, 2008 at 04:19:25 PM MST
(User Info) http://thecasualtraveler.com/wind.htm

Thanks Ungrounded,

     What you wrote,

(As DC it has a somewhat higher tendency to lock up your muscles if you get connected to it

     is what always scares me about high voltage DC. I remember learning in electronics class way back when that anything over 70.7 volts was getting dangerous and I'm not the most careful person about things.
     You gave me a good idea though, next time I'm up there I will draw out the whole wiring diagram and ask for an explanation of it on here. Self excitation is way over my head as I didn't even know what it was till a few months back when I read about it on here.
     Inside the generator are 4 big coils at 90, 180, 270 and 360 degrees. Halfway between 360 and 90 degrees is a fifth smaller coil. I suppose thats the one that gets the rest of the guts all excited. Maybe if I study hard and pay close attention to what you guys teach here, I may be able to make that old genny spin once again.

     Gotta go, just looked out the back door and it looks like there's a hurricane coming. Gotta secure the turbine and check on the Tequila...
Andy
[ Parent ]



Re: Your Grandfather's Micro-Hydro (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Wed Aug 20th, 2008 at 01:51:21 PM MST
(User Info)

It's current that kills.  You can be electrocuted by a 1.5v battery if you put your hands into barrels of salt water to get the current through the skin resistance.

The reason voltages over 77 or so are considered "getting dangerous" (and the rules change at 50 volts) is that skin resistance is usually so high (even when sweating heavily) that such low voltages won't normally push enough current to stimulate muscles and nerves even if you grab a hot wire, while voltages in the 75+ level usually will push at least enough to make your muscles twitch, and potentially could do that to your heart if you grab on hard with your left hand.

But you have the same problem with AC and both electricians and do-it-yourself handymen work with it all the time.

The rules are virtually identical for AC and DC at house-wiring voltages:

 - Only handle unpowered wires.
 - (Be VERY careful and keep your left hand in your pocket if you MUST work in a box where anything is still hot.)
 - Don't grab hard onto anything that MIGHT be hot.  (Even if it's supposed to be dead touch it before grabbing it.  That way the "twitch" won't make you grab on harder if it turned out to be live.)
 - Don't get into a narrow space with exposed hot wiring.  (Risk is being thrown into continued contact by uncontrolled muscle action if you bump something hot.)

Given the pix it looks to me like you should have no more risk of electrocution working with this thing than with working with an AC system of the same vintage.  Main risk looks like the exposed knife switch and the narrow space behind the panel with the hot stuff back there.  So don't go behind the panel while the genny is spinning and keep the area in front of the panel clear of tripping hazards until you can get a guard over the knife switch.

= = = = =

I'd proceed by:
 - Tracing the wiring (and examining it for anything that looks like bad insulation)
 - Getting the genny to turn freely.
 - Maybe "stoning" the commutator.
 - Fixing up any wiring that looks like it needs replacement.  (Note about old wiring:  Flexing it may make the insulation flake off, so don't disturb it unless you're replacing it, then replace everything you have to bend (except the enameled wire in the motor/generator terminal box).  That means pulling new stuff through conduits if necessary.
 - Spinning the genny with a motor while getting the genny/control panel working under no load.
 - Going up to full operating voltage and lighting a small load (like a nightlight bulb.)
 - Hooking up the chain.  (Don't want to put multiple horsepower into it until you're sure it's not shorted.)
 - Loading up the system inside the shack (with new, temporary, loads, like a few incandescent lights).
 - Inspecting and fixing up the wiring to/in the cabins before powering THAT up.

Of course there are lots of points in there where you can determine if there's a problem that means you should stop now.  (For instance:  No point in working on the cabin wiring if the genny isn't going to work.  No point in hooking up the genny to the wheel if the genny is shorted.)

And of course you'll want to keep extinguishers handy and anything flammable away from the genny and panel in the shack until you've got it checked out and running solidly, just in case.

[ Parent ]



Re: Your Grandfather's Micro-Hydro (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by TheCasualTraveler (a.miklos@yahoo.com) on Wed Aug 20th, 2008 at 09:43:42 PM MST
(User Info) http://thecasualtraveler.com/wind.htm

Thanks Ungrounded,

     That all sounds like sound thinking. You've made me consider re-energizing that old mill, but only after a lot of homework. I think probably all wires and components except the generator would need to be updated. We could leave the old panel for show and build a modern and compact one. Also the wheel itself would need alot of work to be able to stand the amount of water it would need to turn those gears. Right now the buckets are a little leaky, OK for show but we only use a trickle to make it turn.

     Thanks again for that detailed and well thought out post.
Andy
[ Parent ]



Re: Your Grandfather's Micro-Hydro (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Fri Aug 22nd, 2008 at 06:13:46 PM MST
(User Info)

I bet the mill as-is will have no trouble spinning the genny to speed if its armature is disconnected - and probably will be able to drive it to self-excite and power a couple hundred watts of load.

Of course you'll need to fix it up to pull kilowatts off the genny.  But the genny's resistance to turning is just mechanical friction plus the power delivered or lost in internal losses (including powering its own field coils).  So if there's no electrical load there's nearly no mechanical load.

[ Parent ]



Your Grandfather's Micro-Hydro | 15 comments (15 topical, 0 editorial)

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