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Small scale solar MPPT wins 21% | 47 comments (47 topical, 0 editorial)
Re: Small scale solar MPPT wins 21% (3.00 / 0) (#37)
by elt on Sat Sep 20th, 2008 at 09:09:42 AM MST
(User Info)

Hi Scott,

I think we're looking at apples and oranges... er, coils vs. FETs. My toy-ish simulator only gives me a virtual DVM and virtual oscilloscope for analysis. Yes, if I put the leads across the coil, then I get results similar to fig.3.

I thought that we were going to measure the voltage across the FET? As I understand fig.3, the FET voltage isn't shown.... The plots I posted simulate the standard boost circuit with the o-scope ground on ground, channel one on gate and channel two on drain.

The duty cycle in this sim was 50% and is seen by the square waveform in red. The voltage on the drain-source channel (yellow) is at 10v/div when the FET is turned off and shows a quick voltage spike to 50 volts or more that trails off until the voltage drops below battery volts (about 30v), then it slams down to input volts (about 17 volts).

The second image shows the voltage across the FET when it is turned on. Channel two is set to 50mv/div to show the detail during this phase. ( The voltage looks flat in the first image but it's not, it's just lost in the larger voltage scale.)

If I understood your instructions, I am to measure the FET voltage just before the FET is turned off, that would represent the approx 150mV shown on channel two in the second image.

If I understood your instructions, the volts measured just before the FET is turned off would be multiplied by the voltage across the cap. Power = Vcap * Vfet/Rdson but R is constant for purposes of relative comparison so forget about it. Is that right?

That seems to represent maximizing power in from the solar panel. When you first wrote of measuring current by using Rdson as "the shunt", I assumed you meant on the output (battery) side. Based on that, I was suggesting that the "tall area" in the left hand part of the yellow waveform in the first image, starting just after when the FET gate is turned off until the voltage drops below battery volts represents the power that is transferred to battery. Now we're considering (Vds x Rdson) x Vbatt. Similar to the previous case, Rdson is fixed and can be dropped from the calculation but now Vbattery is constant for purposes of relative comparison so we can forget about it as well. All that leaves to consider is volts across the FET for as long as the diode is conducting. From what I've seen from a few different input-power setups, I'm suspecting the using the diode conduction time alone might be adequate to track the MPP... hm, "maximizing conduction time of diode with a pwm output" sounds like a good description for MPPT on a chip.

Do you have an analog solution? I know that many folk would prefer an analog solution but it seems hard for me to beat the functionality of a two dollar microprocessor chip.

Is this making any sense?

 - Ed.

[ Parent ]



Re: Small scale solar MPPT wins 21% (3.00 / 0) (#38)
by scottsAI (user name at eml dot cc) on Sat Sep 20th, 2008 at 09:04:18 PM MST
(User Info)

Hi Elt,

We are on the same page! Some clarifications:
I assume Vcap is the capacitor on the Solar Panels side?
Power = Vcap * (Vfet/Rdson) / 2, correct for the panel side.
Inductor Current is a ramp must Divide by 2 for the average current:-)
As the panel is loaded Vcap will change (a lot), therefore power is dependent on it.
As you state Rdson cycle by cycle is the same (dependent on temperature)

The energy in the inductor is the same for the charging and discharging equations:
Power = Vbat * (Vfet/Rdson) / 2 (if discharging current is a ramp)
Since Vbat is constant only need to max Vfet to Max power!
If discharging is not ramp not sure if valid comparison? Need to think about this.
Time PWM cycle to keep some current in the inductor at the end of the cycle to get ramp.
(As long as the load side conditions remain the same, expect OK to let current go to zero.)
Then comparisons of peak currents are representative of more energy = more power.
Power transfer with inductor current going to zero requires larger Peaks currents to get the same average. 4 = 8/2, if current goes from 2 to 6 = 4 same average current.
Peak currents are the root of most problems in a switcher.

Timing the length of inductor output is more difficult than measuring Vfet once.

Do you have an analog solution?
No, I could...
Couple years ago saw a very complex circuit doing MPPT. Much more Costly.
May have been in a patent. (where I go to learn how things work:-)

Have fun,
Scott.


[ Parent ]



Re: Small scale solar MPPT wins 21% (3.00 / 0) (#39)
by elt on Sun Sep 21st, 2008 at 01:56:33 PM MST
(User Info)

Scott wrote:

> Timing the length of inductor output is more difficult than measuring Vfet once.

!!!

Can it be that simple? Timing the inductor output is free when using a 16 bit timer for PWM on the AVR micros. Simply set up the input capture unit to trigger on the analog comparator...

I'm going to restart this reply down at the bottom of the page; in thread-view mode we are so far to the right of the page that only little words will fit on the screen...

[ Parent ]



Small scale solar MPPT wins 21% | 47 comments (47 topical, 0 editorial)

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