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US has a third world electric grid | 27 comments (27 topical, editorial)
Re: US has a third world electric grid (3.00 / 0) (#26)
by scottsAI (user name at eml dot cc) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 01:20:27 AM MST
(User Info)

DamonHD,

The cost analysis of solar vs wind vs nuclear are messed up when you add the cost of a New grid to make use of it.

Next Town over is putting in 20 miles new transmission lines, cost estimated at $15 millions. These are not even big lines. Going with larger lines must cost more? Still working on right of ways two years.
The lines are going into GM test facility, employees 4,000 people. The lines are a third redundant power feed. Three years ago they lost power for a day and still pissed about it.

Macro power generation looks good cost wise until adding in the upgrade cost necessary to the transmission grid. Part of the system cost. Micro generation starts looking more attractive.
Loosing 10% to transmission changes the equations.

Recently a company started production of a $1/w solar cell, first 18 months sold out.
If solar panels were produced in volume to be put on homes... how would the economics change?

Prior post was using the numbers for total energy. Home energy can be used in many forms.
Newest generation heat pumps are looking attractive even for Michigan!

The final comment of micro vs macro.
Micro has a fixed cost over a period of time. Mostly up front, little after.
Macro power will forever have to new bill to pay!!! Always going UP!
Which fits in your wallet?

Having fun,
Scott.


[ Parent ]



Re: US has a third world electric grid (3.00 / 0) (#27)
by DamonHD (d@hd.org) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 02:17:29 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.earth.org.uk/

Hi,
  1. A lot of 'macro' can be installed in smaller blocks near to consumption centres retaining the cost savings from scale but often significantly reducing (maybe halving according to Ecotricity) the transmission costs.  Clearly that doesn't help where the RE resource is nowhere near, but that's not always going to be the case.
  2. By my estimation most of the cost of domestic PV microgen is the installation cost of having skilled workers mucking around on your property, not breaking things and meeting building codes.  Even if the PV was free it would still be more expensive than macro PV or wind if I'm right.  Hasn't stopped me putting lots of PV on my house, with more to come I hope, but if you're a government with a fixed $Xm to spend, where should the bulk of it go for the greatest concrete effect?
  3. Macro and micro both require amortised maintenance.  I can't find Dale's numbers right now, but I think that a 2MWp turbine might cost £2m to install (£1/Wp) and cost ~£10k/year in maintenance, ie much less than 1% of capital cost per year, over a 20+ year life.  I may have those figures wrong, but note that you'd do well to have microgen running for 20 years with maintenance cost/time less than 1% of install costs if you include your own time at a fair rate cleaning panels, checking meters, or whatever.  I can't see a real difference in cost profile here.
Rgds

Damon

[ Parent ]



US has a third world electric grid | 27 comments (27 topical, 0 editorial)

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