Scott.[ Parent ]
"Have freezing temperatures during the winter? With help, figure can freeze block in 5 days (needs below 20F) That or use more coils."
Yes, I do have freezing temps in the winter....I live in central IL, and actually we had a rather cold winter this year. Several days below zero. So how exactly would I make use of this?? It gets very hot/humid here in the winter. I would think I would need a HUGE block of ice to cool my home in the summer for any length of time. Just curious but do you have any links to projects where folks have successfully implemented something like this? A project which addresses keeping the block from melting outside in the heat....how to distribute the cool air throughout the house etc etc.[ Parent ]
The ice block cooling idea seems to be unique. Found one web page of a guy 20 years ago using ice stored for his Fridge. My suggestion is for whole house + fridge. Check my 900 posts here to see I am more or less respectable!-)
OK, the idea may be strange, yet the cold is there, lets figure a way to use it!
In simple math terms: Located lower MI, my AC bill is $150 for the entire summer. Translate the AC efficiency into actual BTU transferred comes to 15,000,000BTU for the summer. Can we store this much and account for the heat lost while stored? Yes.
Each lb of frozen water absorbs 144BTU while melting. Reducing volume greatly.
Lets play with some real numbers. 13.5 ft cube in ground at 50F during summer. 13.5 ft cube is 18,251 gallons, nice sized swimming pool. I suggest to build a deck as part of the top cover, kills two birds with one stone. Surround tank with 4" foam insulation. Based on heat loss 32F to 50F the entire tank will absorb 740BTU/hr through all six sides. Over 200 days = 3.55Million BTU. Therefore; tank must store 18.55MBTU, the 13.5 ft cube of ice will store 22MBTU leaving a nice margin over the 15MBTU needed.
"how to distribute the cool air throughout the house." Forced air system Refrigerant AC systems use an A frame shaped heat exchanger, we can circulate 32 deg water through it. No worries about freezing. Dehumidification will be Superior to existing systems (colder by 20F) Forced air systems fan and recirculating pump use one tenth the power of existing AC systems, well within an off grid system to have AC system.
I believe this can be built for less than $2k, on par with current AC system cost.
Call me crazy if you like, looks like a valid system to me. My AC system works fine, hard to justify the cost to test this out, else I would.
Have fun, Scott.[ Parent ]
If you are attaching an A/C system to a conventional house, and the insulated pit for ice-store is dug and built by a contractor, it will be horribly expensive with a small benefit.
If your house is designed and built to need very little heating/cooling, a much smaller cool-storage is needed. Also, if you dig the pit yourself (or trade for a friend with a backhoe to dig it) insulated pit may not be that expensive.
www.builditsolar.com has a well-researched project that uses solar-heated water that is stored in an insulated pit. Pre-heats DHW, and warms radiant-floor system in house even in very cold winter.
Cold air on a winter night can be circulated down through pipes in salt-water pool (down to 20F or less) located in underground insulated root cellar. In daytime you can place aluminum molds filled with fresh water into pool to make ice blocks.
I understand some folks just don't have the land to dig a large underground room. Or, the energy to do it themselves, or enough money to pay contractor, but...
I honestly believe this IS possible to be done cheaply and DIY (lots of work, though, clearly not for everyone) [ Parent ]
What if you could use a solar powered Einstein cycle to mitigate 'extra' heat in the return line heading back to the ice block?
Solar powering the cycle to directly cool the house doesn't seem like the most ideal situation to me, primarily because when you need it most to cool the house (peak solar), is when the system would need to be in the heat part of the cycle in order to operate most efficiently, thereby not actively cooling anything. Not really practical.
BUT - if you use the cycle to remove as much heat as possible from the water returning to the ice block from the house, you could make the ice block smaller, and have a more compact system since you would not need to 'store' as much cold.
Not that digging a smaller hole is really THAT much cheaper or anything, but there may be other reasons to have a smaller system. Also, the ammonia would never need to be anywhere in the living space; the cooling exchanger could be incorporated into the same space as (or even within) the ice block itself.
On top of all of this, it would help the block reach a lower temperature sooner in the winter when you're trying to get rid of as much heat as possible. Mild winter -> Nasty summer wouldn't keep you from staying cool.
One more (do they ever end) possibility - By rerouting a few things in the winter, you could also use the exhaust heat from the cycle to help heat the house.
Just an idea... Am I too far off target on this one?
Steve [ Parent ]
