Author Topic: 1/3hp ECM Conversion  (Read 7675 times)

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adaml

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1/3hp ECM Conversion
« on: April 07, 2009, 10:28:25 AM »
This is my first attempt at both a motor conversion and a diary entry so hope it all makes a bit of sense.


Before I start I must first say a massive thank you to Ghurd aka "The Oracle" for all his hand holding and spoon feeding during this process - would have even less hair now without the invaluable help - thanks.


As previously posted my experiments with a Delco alternator came to a dead end and in pursuit of happiness I sought out a new project and was lucky enough to get my hands on a 1/3hp ECM Motor.  I had done a lot of reading and referenced Jerry's posts numerous times but on opening the motor up still found it to be a daunting prospect!  Anyway, came up with the following wiring scheme:





Wired the motor by attaching new wires to the factory "ends" having identified the phases and ran through three rectifiers.  As this motor was going to be outside I thought it wise to try to weather proof.  Some ali tape and several coats of enamel paint later the end result looked like this:





Having dabbled in pvc blades previously and experimented with wood blades I decided to stick to the wood method as reckoned I was getting better at carving so went for a blade length of 26", TSR7 and fed these figures into the Alton Wind Calculator to give me the parameters I needed ended up with rough blades:





Happy with this as a starting point I put her in the air and let fly.  The blades spun up well in a 8 - 10mph wind but stall was very evident, just would not increase in rpm despite increases in wind speed.  With a little more spoon feeding I went back to the beginning.  This meant seperating the phases further.  In the process of doing this managing to break the end of one of the coils so had to amend my plans for the conversion again:





This is the format I settled on and repeated for the "black" and "red" phases but without the omission of one coil (as I had to in the "green" phase having broken one end!).


I ended up with the below as a ready to reassemble point:





With the finished blades, made from 2" x 6" rough cut pine, treated with five good coats of boiled linseed the motor, hub and blades were ready to be united and re-tested





I have a 10' tower in the back garden, close to the house so not a perfect site but open to farm land and the prevailing wind so not too bad either.  Having waited the customary four days for some wind she began spinning up very well, in again 8 - 10mph winds with no sign of stall this time.  I have the motor hooked up to two 110Amp hour deep cycle batteries and a Ghurd controller in my shed.  I am not too good yet at figures so apologies to those who like the statistics, still learning and will post again when I get some.  However, I can say that in a wind speed of 18mph the controller was dumping perfectly and providing I am reading my multimeter correctly I saw it peak at 12amps.  I appreciate this may sound high but have double checked and seen this level on at least two occasions.


Anyway, I am happy, this is a good learning curve for me and at the moment if I can get charge into my battery bank and use this power to light my shed that is good enough for me while I continue the learning process and figure out (pardon the pun) how to get some meaningful data to post!


If this is a jumbled mess I apologise! G- Ta again!

« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 10:28:25 AM by (unknown) »

ghurd

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2009, 05:29:34 AM »
Nice to see it flying!


Good output too.  175W out of a 1/3HP is a success.


I am not sure I deserve that much credit.

G-

« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 05:29:34 AM by ghurd »
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bsafe

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2009, 08:11:47 AM »
Congratulations! Very nice turbine!

   How did you mount you blades to the shaft?


I don't understand the coil assignments given that you have 4 rectifyers for 18 (17) coils?


    Stock, the motor has 18 coils divided into 3 groups of 6 coils wired in star which according to Jerry is good for 24v charging. Removing the star point and adding a lead to the end of each of the three groups of 6 coils gives you 6 leads (2 for every 3 groups of 6 coils) and is good for 12v charging.


 Would I be correct If I said that you then seperated each group of 6 coils into two groups of 3 coils, added a lead and rectified? This would give you six groups of 3 coils. At this point I am confused.


 Are you charging at 6v 8v or 12v?  I need a bit of that spoon feeding myself as aparently I cannot find my own mouth. Thank you for your understanding. Bsafe.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 08:11:47 AM by bsafe »

Rover

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2009, 11:08:40 AM »
I Have a 1/2 hp ECM , and the Jerry configuration (I think he has more than one) I am using for 12v is to do the following, with each phase, parallel all coil starts, to the same with stops. Take stop group from each phase and parallel that, run the 3 start groups down to rectifiers.


Works for me since the stock series coils ran a much higher voltage, however I'm thinking about lowering my cut in rpm at the cost of amps by splitting each of coil sets of 6 into 3 parallel series to the other 3 in parallel. Still go star after that

« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 11:08:40 AM by Rover »
Rover
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Rover

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2009, 11:14:31 AM »
I also broke a wire, you can get it out if you can locate the end with a pair of locking forceps and route it back around the coil by gently pulling on it then unwrapping it once (I had to this on the one of the starts burried under the coil). You lose one turn on the coil but better than losing the whole coil.


Since you already consider the coil dead.. might be worth the effort.

« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 11:14:31 AM by Rover »
Rover
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FishbonzWV

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2009, 02:28:12 PM »
Good job adam,

That's impressive power out of it.

One thing I have found out is, these motors need to breathe.

I drill four 1/8 inch holes on the underside of the motor (as mounted).

Two at each end, close to the end bells and close to the center line.

It's good to tape up the seams to keep the rain out but condensation still gets in.

My first conversion had quite a bit of rust inside even though I shot it with clear coat and sealed it up, this was after just 6 or 8 months.

I drilled the holes before putting it back up and a year later there wasn't any more decay.

Just a thought.

Bonz

« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 02:28:12 PM by FishbonzWV »
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ghurd

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 04:32:44 PM »
The 'other wire' was broken so it was hardly visible.

G-
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 04:32:44 PM by ghurd »
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divemaster1963

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2009, 06:42:32 PM »
hey I was wondering where you found your ecm motor. I'v asked around and have not located one yet. what equipment do you recomend finding then in.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 06:42:32 PM by divemaster1963 »

RA

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2009, 10:24:45 PM »
Hi

what is the size of copper wire in that motor conversion ? I'm askin because you told 12 amps peak was detected.

Thank you
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 10:24:45 PM by RA »

adaml

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2009, 12:50:22 AM »
Hi Rover,

I had a good look and decided there was no way that this coil was getting unwound.  1/18th power loss was acceptable to me, especially as I'd probably have done more damage trying to unravel the coil:



« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 12:50:22 AM by adaml »

adaml

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2009, 12:59:22 AM »
Forgot to mention G- managed to "cook" my multimeter leads in the process of trying to get some amp readings!!
« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 12:59:22 AM by adaml »

adaml

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2009, 01:24:04 AM »
bsafe, the blades in the picture were mounted to a test hub.  I replaced this with a hub I had made up and an arbor from TLG:






« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 01:24:04 AM by adaml »

Rover

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2009, 02:31:13 AM »
That is prety much the same break I had. Brought it out a little with the smallest jewelers screwdriver I had, after that it moved fairly easily from under the coil. The plastic holding the coil in place is flexible, so you can get a tool in. Afterwards I applied a liberal amount of nail polish to the area in case I had nicked something.


But you are right, it is just 1 out of 18.


FYI, most I have seen out of mine is ~ 12 amps at ~12.5 V bat , and that is a 1/2 HP with the coils in each phase paralled.


And it has to spin fast to get there.

« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 02:31:13 AM by Rover »
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bsafe

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2009, 06:54:36 AM »
Very nicely done!

    Would you be willing to explain again your coil assignment, as I am having a bit of trouble following along. Of your three  coil diagrams is the last diagram what you setteled on?

    I had a 1/2 hp ecm flying and was seeing 2-3 amps charging 12v. I followed Jerry's posts and


  1. - located the star point
  2. -seperated the 3 wires at the star point
  3. -attached a longer lead or wire to each of three  wires that had made up the star point.
  4. - Using my continuity meter matched the longer lead to the coresponding stock lead and rectified each pair(3) using  a total of 3 rectifyers .


   It took a lot of courage for me to do that as the ECMs are hard to come by. Thank you for your patience and progress. Bsafe
« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 06:54:36 AM by bsafe »

adaml

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Re: 1/3hp ECM Conversion
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2009, 07:55:54 AM »
bsafe, bear with me and I will try to put this in a coherent way ,hope it works anyway LOL.  No i-net at home and seriously restricted at work to what I can access... any way,:


  1.  Cut off the pre-attached plug
  2.  Seperated the three connected wires.
  3.  Attached new wires to the copper original ends, red, green, black
  4.  Attached new wires to the copper original ends, red, green, black


This led to stall.


I then seperated the phases down into, red phase shown below:




This I repeated for the "black" phase, i.e. I wired red and black phases exactly the same


The "green" phase was different as I had broken a coil:




The green phase went to two rectifiers.  Then one rectifer for the red and one for the black.  The red and black phases were paralled.  


If you were to go down this route I would suggest copying the "red" phase for your equivalent of "green" and "black".  Doing this certainly got the mill out of stall for me.


Hope this helps??

« Last Edit: April 09, 2009, 07:55:54 AM by adaml »