3 quick questions for zubbly

[asheets]

I just have a couple quick questions for Zubbly regarding induction motor conversion.  I was just going over the family junkpile with my father, and noticed that his pile of motors had grown appreciably since my last visit home.  Lots of Daytons, various blower motors, compressor motors (my dad seems to collect compressors), washer and dryer motors (he used to own a Maytag/Speedqueen laundromat), etc, from frac up to 5hp.  Mostly 1-phase, and some 3 phase (most of the 3ph actually get used for other things, like table saw and compressor rebuilds).  My dad collects more than he has actual time/money to work on, and the weather has gotten to some of them.  He does have a complete machine shop at his disposal, though.

1. Do you have a particular motor that you like to convert more than others?  Why?
   
2. Is there a make of motor that you would recommend for someone who doesn't want to rewind the coils?  We've got lots of tools to turn rotors down and whatnow, and plenty of mags are available, but we'd actually have to "purchase" wire if we did a rewind.
   
3. I've browsed through your older posts, but am wondering if you've ever put together a concise guide to conversions in one place.
   
   

I've been lurking around, and am working on an axial made of hard drive parts, so the induction conversion is going to be my dad's project.

[Slingshot]

Zubbly seems to be the resident expert.  I wish he would start a page of do-it-yourself conversion how-to articles.

[zubbly]

hi asheets!

i prefer to use totally enclosed motors, simply to help keep the weather out, yet motors open to atmosphere will still make great alternators.  industrial line motors are also a first choice as they are often built more rugged and have larger bearings. 1/2 to 2hp 3 phase motors using stock windings also seem to have worked out very well. i look for the 3 phase 230/460 volt ones. these are generally 1 and 2 circuit star connected, but with the addition of 3 extra leads, you will have a motor that can be connected 1 and 2 circuit star or delta. it will enable you to just about be able to match up a prop to suit either 12,24, or 48 volt batt charging. 2 pole motors (3450 rpm) are not a good choice as they have a much more narrow rotor diameter making it more difficult to place mags on the rotor surface. 2 pole motors can be converted, but you would have better gains in design with 4 or more pole designs.

as far as which makes are the best to convert, i prefer baldor, leeson,westinghouse, and just about any of the industrial lines of motors.  baldor seems to be quite easy to lift the connections to add the mentioned additional lead wires.  some seem more difficult because of the factory type of lacing cord and varnish that they use.

my info on converting is unfortunately scattered, and will take a little effort for you to hunt it down. you may find more on connection diagrams and small explanations in the gallery   http://www.anotherpower.com/gallery/zubbly    but even it is in a sad state of order.  i do need to organize it better some day.  here is another site which gives some more detail on converting a motor   http://www.reresource.org/Search/         type in zubbly on the search box and it will bring you to a 3 part conversion process.

i have started a book on converting motors, and will be quite in depth (not theory in depth but oriented to simple explanations, methods, how to's, material guides, sources, alternate methods of getting things done).  i do expect it will be quite some time before i ever finish it.

hope this helps!  

zubbly

[drdongle]

Z is there any place on the net you can down load diagrams of different types of stators? like 24 tooth/slot, 36 tooth/slot, and so on? I want to work out some windings, and pre prepared diagrams would be a great help.

thanks

[zubbly]

hi drdongle!

i do have some pictures of single stator plates in most slot combinations (curtousy of ronB). however, if it is just to show you how to place the coils for specific types of windings, i can show you how i usually like to do it.

it is just basically dashes in a straight line. imagine the stator cut open and rolled out, with it showing the coil placements.

view centre picture in top row.  i think this is what you are after.

http://www.anotherpower.com/gallery/zubbly

view page 2, 3rd row

if this is not what you want, let me know.

zubbly

[zubbly]

drdongle.

the pictures of stator plates i have were drawn by RonB (wdyasq).  he has kindly given his permission for me to share them. my computer skills are not the best and couldn't figure out how to upload the file of them to fieldlines.

i have loaded them to the album site. you can view them on the last page.

http://www.anotherpower.com/gallery/zubbly?page=29

hope this helps

zubbly

[henjulfox]

Zubbly,

You don't mention 1 Phase motors as good candidates. Would cogging be a problem or is it just the high quality of the 3 phase?

-Henry

[drdongle]

NOW thats what I'm talking about!!

Boucoup thanks Zubbly!!

[rpcancun]

I have been on contact with a neodymium manufacturer in the u.s. for what seems to be

a decent price, they will make a custom mold for any size magnet I want and that includes 25 pieces, so the big question is,.....what would be the dream shape and strength for a magnet in our applications?

my dream alternator: 4k watts at 200 rpm or less!!

speed is no problem, I have been working on a simple pitch control for 10yrs

and with the help of my friend who is a mechanical engineer from MIT, it's ready.

I'm just fishin for some good input....

Thx

[electrondady1]

whats the name of the company?

[ghurd]

Hi Zubbly,

Any idea why a conversion would only cog in 1 spot of the rotation?

Catches in the same spot every time, but that is the only spot.

Bearings, not bushings. Looks like a good quality motor, Oriental brand, 100% machined inside, no rough cast or stamped parts.

Round magnets on a round armature.  I can't hear or feel any physical contact, looks to be enough clearance before the end is placed.

Yup, a big 60W conversion.

G-

[zubbly]

hi henjulfox!

thanks for reminding me, i totally forgot to mention 1 phase motors. they will make a great alternator. you can harvest both the run and the start winding, basically making a 2 phase alternator.  jerry has done a huge amount of work doing 1 phase conversions and with great success.

as far as cogging, always make sure you use some form of anti cogg measure. skew magnets on rotor, if winding you can skew the laminations, or you can use the 1 magnet offset method. (i prefer to use skewed mags on rotor or skew the laminations. skewing should always be equivalent to one stator tooth if possible. (36 slot-skew by 10 degrees, 24 slot-skew by 15 degrees, 48 slot-skew by 7.5 degrees)

zubbly

[zubbly]

hi ghurd!

if you had a short in one coil, i would be inclined to think that you would feel it on each magnet pass. if you are only feeling it once in each turn and in the same spot, i would think it may be 1 high magnet, or a slightly high lamination in the stator, or possibly when the rotor was turned in lathe it was not perfectly centered(the rotor should always be dialed in to within one thousands of an inch) and you may have an eliptical rotor touching a high stator lamination.

you could try putting some machinists blueing on the rotor, assemble, spin a few times, then take apart and you will see exactly where the scrubbing is coming from.

hope this helps. let us know what you find.

zubbly

[zubbly]

hi rpcancun!

honestly, there is no "dream" shape and size of magnet. if there was only one size motor to be converted, that would be a simple answer. i think your best chances are to find the best suitable magnet for what ever motor you wish to convert.

"4kw" at 200 rpm would be quite a size conversion.  i have not done anything to date that large. i think just a rough guess would be in the 20-25hp area of donor motor.

most of my conversions (1-2hp) have their max output in the area of 600 rpm.

a "ball park" figure of what i have found is that i seem to be able to get approx 100 watts for every square inch of neo magnet on a rotor when using round mags. when using rectangular mags, it comes up to about 125-150 watts per square inch of neo mag on the rotor.  don't use this a a certain design tool, but only as an approx guide.

last thing.  we all seem to openly share our info here.  would you mind sharing the info for the company that is willing to make the mags for you?  i could use it.

hope this helps,

zubbly

[ghurd]

My best guess... A lathe from HF.

Motor is better made and probably cost more.

I will try the blueing.

Should I save the 3-ph 3600rpm questions for another time?

Thanks a million.

G-

[rpcancun]

"The material could be cast for you; the minimum charge would be $ 150.00

to $ 300.00, with maybe 25 samples supplied.  How ever they would not be

warrentied against breakage.  These would shatter easily. The lead time

would be aprox 6 weeks. "

Kim DeLong

Industrial Sales Consultant

Master Magnetics, Inc.

888-293-9399 ext 128

Fax 303-688-5303

kimd@magnetsource.com

www.magnetsource.com

[rpcancun]

On a block Mag your saying approx 125-150 watts per sq inch.

at what thickness and N rating???

Thx

[rpcancun]

Heres a pic of the stator i would like to build....

havent really decided about mags,..1 2x2 2 1x2's,..etc...

Thx

[zubbly]

hi rpcancun!

it doesn't seem to matter what thickness  (its the total of all the mags that i base it on).  most of the ones i use are N35

zubbly

[zubbly]

oops!

my bad choice of words describing the expected output of neo mags.  i should have said output per "cubic" inch of mags.

sorry, my mistake guys.

zubbly