Author Topic: My water storage - treatment system  (Read 5660 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

XeonPony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
  • Country: ca
  • Sanity is over rated!
My water storage - treatment system
« on: May 13, 2010, 12:01:41 PM »
Where I live I have a seasonal stream, during summer it dries up for the most part, but will flow if we have 3 or so days of rain during summer. Now because it is flowing after being dry the surface water will be fairly contaminated with particulates and or bacteria, it will require some sort of treatment be for storage.

The system I am using draws off the hydro systems penstock through a 60micron centrifugal separator to remove coarse objects such as sand, pine needles and to some extent silt, that then discharges into a 30 micron sediment filter which feeds into the T fitting that will supply the shower system via a check valve that is to be added in.  The water will continue through the T into a 25 micron, 5 micron then 1 micron filter, most protozoan infectious agents will be mechanically filtered out at this point leaving only bacteria and or viruses, this water will flow through a UV system rated @ 5 to 8GPM at a much lower flow rate ensuring a very high UV dossage then continuing to the barrels through another check valve yet to be installed.

Once in the Barrels the water will be treated with ozone in a continuous closed loop.  The air vent system will go through a .3 Micron mechanical filter system then into the barrels, the tube will extend to the bottom with 100's of 3/8 holes drilled in a helical pattern, the ozone will be feed though this tube via a small PVC air pipe to a fizzer at the base of the dip tube, this will create a bubble pump to circulate the ozone treated water within the barrel, the ozone generator will get it feed air from the top of the vent system. The ozone loop will look like this :  Raw air > .25micron mechanical filter > Reciprocating piston air pump > Barrel vent feed system > silica gel desiccant material > Ozone generator > Air fizzer > Back to vent system. By doing so I should be able to concentrate any active ozone that makes it to the surface, Resone to use silica gel is the ability to regenerate it using any heat source.

The water going to the point of use will go through another check valve acting as a back flow preventer to prevent any contamination of the barrels.

Total system capacity at current:
Barrels:
2* 55G  (110g)
2* 208L (416L)

Hot water tank:
45G
170L
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 12:41:27 PM by XeonPony »
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

XeonPony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
  • Country: ca
  • Sanity is over rated!
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2010, 12:06:34 PM »
http://www.geejaychemicals.co.uk/silicagel.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel


I'll be using a Color indicating Silica gel in a quartz glass tube with PVC caps, for the regenerating system I'm still not sure on one single method at the moment but I'll certainly be posting it here when I do decide

Eventually a shed will be built around the barrels to keep them in total darkness and to keep them cool which will improve the formation and effectiveness of the ozone ensuring high purity fresh tasting water.

The barrels will be used in a cyclic fashion, (drain/fill > drain/fill excetra) This will help to keep the stored water stock fresh. The UV system will be set up to only operate as the barrels are filled then the UV system will be shut down and a solenoid valve will all so shut off the feed water until the barrels been emptied at which point the cycle starts again, should the bulb in the UV system fail a protection circuit will override the refill system and force down the primary raw water intake solenoid.

Raw water > Solenoid > Filter/treatment system > Barrels...  Water level sense circuit > UV Failure lock out > Solenoid valve.

The water level sensing system will be don by mechanical diaphragm switches via pneumatic pressure in a AND logic configuration, this should help ensure both & any futur barrels are filled to full capacity befor the feed water is shut down and that no untreaded water would be allowed to enter the system. The Ozone will act as a final fail safe to contamination and ensure fresh tasting water.

Edit:
Added wiki info as well
Added details to level control system and treatment system
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 12:32:01 PM by XeonPony »
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

XeonPony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
  • Country: ca
  • Sanity is over rated!
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2010, 01:52:14 PM »
I forgot to add that the mounting hut that you see is insulated with 2" of polystyrene foam insulation and when finished will be fully enclosed with vapour barrier.

A 120w 12v heater and a 24w pump will be added to circulate the stored water to heat it to prevent freezing, this will be installed into the hut as well to keep it warmed during winter, the raw water will simply be bled out to prevent it from freezing.
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

12AX7

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2010, 07:19:36 PM »
Hello

Just to wanted to be sure I understand your goal.

The end result will be used for drinking water, right?
At the end of this process, how does your water taste?
How much power is used to produce a barrel of clean water?
Catching rain water isn't practical?
You must live/camp way out in the boonies!

ax7

XeonPony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
  • Country: ca
  • Sanity is over rated!
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2010, 10:33:36 AM »
yup nothing but forrest, nearest power or cable is 7k or better.

Clean water from rain/stream? , Durring the summer so much dust even the rain water needs to be filtered mechanically at the least the most effective method is to capture the surface run off when it rains hence the complex treatment system.

Power requirements need to be tallied up as of yet, I am still designing the system, The UV+Valve use about 2 to 3 amps max, Ozone may use 1 to 3 amps as well, may need a delivery pump for post process delivery if so that will use 5 amps for less then a minute.

The barrels fill up in about ten minutes with direct filling but should be about 1 hour with every thing in place for treatment.

I'll be using an 8awg feed line, and sizing the fuse for 15 to 20A, How ever the whole system isn't running 24/7, only the ozone will run continuous. The UV only runs while the barrels are filled then it is locked off till the barrels are totally emptied, the demand pump is only for filling the tank on the trailer with no restriction so it would be using very little power for a minute at the most.

Basically the barrels are to capture the most amount of water when ever the opportunity is presented, then that treated water filled up a 10g (38L) tank that is in my trailer.

The trailer system goes like this:  10g (38L) holding tank > Pressure pump to 60psi > 4g expansion tank > High pressure drop carbon ice filter > Tap for consumption....

So the water tastes amazing at the final point of use, the shower water is not treated, only filtered for sediment and is kept isolated from the tap water system

updated pics to follow on the treatment system.
The UV bulb and sleeve is from a dead system, just posted them so those not familiar could see what they look like, A Mercury bulb & a fused quarts sleeve
« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 10:39:27 AM by XeonPony »
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

12AX7

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2010, 10:53:04 PM »
Hello

We live in a medium populated area, just out side of a town of about 12k.
We have a shallow well and use the water for bathing and laundry, we use bottled water for drinking and cooking.
Although we use bottle water for consumption, we do use the well water for brushing our teeth.
I installed a water softener a number of years ago, although we don't have any type of filtering system in place.
The water has always been "crystal clear" and with out odor.
No rust stains in the tub or "john".    I suppose I should consider ourselves lucky!
I'd like to eliminate our use of bottle water, hence my interest in your thread.

Although there hasn't been others posting here looking at the numbers (206 at this time), there are others here that are following your progress. 
Looking forward to your posted results.

ax7
Mark

Volvo farmer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1043
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2010, 05:43:24 AM »
12AX7, Have you considered a reverse osmosis system for drinking water?  We installed one from Sam's Club under the sink 2 years ago and have had no problems with it.  The only bad thing is I believe it uses 4-6x the amount of water that comes out of the spigot to flush the membrane clean, otherwise it uses no power (other than the pressure of the tap water). I believe the entire setup was around $100 and I'm almost certain that RO would filter out any of the nasties you would normally be concerned with in a shallow well.
Less bark, more wag.

FishbonzWV

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2010, 07:19:51 AM »

I'd like to eliminate our use of bottle water, hence my interest in your thread.

ax7
Mark

I set a system up for our farm several years ago.
We caught rain water from a three stall shed roof.
First line of filtering was gutter guards with the screen in them, then to a roof washer that wasted the first gallon of water per 100 square feet of roof.
Then a screen filter over the top of the 1000 gal. vertical tank.
Water was drawn about 6 inches from the top of the water level, that is the cleanest water as it does not draw the flotsam or the jetsam.

I would add a quart of bleach to the tank in the spring and fall.
We used a 12v shurflow pump for pressure and for drinking just put a Pur water filter on the kitchen tap.
The only problem we had on the whole system was a plastic union failed on the bottom of the tank draining it. We replumbed the outflow with all brass components.
Before that it was water from the rain barrels carted in 5 gal buckets to flush the toilet.
Running water is so sweet.
Bonz



« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 07:30:07 AM by FishbonzWV »
"Put your brain in gear before you put your mouth in motion"
H.F.Fisher 1925-2007

XeonPony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
  • Country: ca
  • Sanity is over rated!
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2010, 12:37:23 PM »
Chlorine is very ruff on PVC hence why I hate to use it much for any thing, I'll just use it once to sterilize the system then turn it over to the UV/ozone.

Small 12v UV systems can be purchased fairly cheap and if kept within their flow rating will kill 95% or better of bacteria, couple that with a 2micron filter you'll be very safe drinking water.


Well I got every thing nearly don on the treatment plant, started to work on the ozone generatore and the ozone bubble pump system.

I noticed that the water has gone slightly bitter as the stream looses flow so I decided to add a post treatment carbon filter to the system

The ozone generator was salvaged from an old hot tub, I need to rebuild the corona discharge reactor assembly, and modify the circuit a tad, mainly set it to run off 12 or 24v and to bump the frequency to 80KHz should the coil accept it. It uses a standered automotive coil and a SS tube and a quartz sleeve to generate the ozone.

The UV system draws 4.16A - On for a little over an hour
The Ozone unit draws 4A - On 24/7
Air compressor draws : - 10 for 10 minutes then is off most the day
The POU pump draws 2.5A - On for 4 minutes at most to fill the trailers holding tank.

The picture of the land scape is pointing back torwards the way to the highway back to town, and my high end power tools! I ditched the batteries that came with them and attached cords so I could run them off a car battery, that way I don't have to stop working every 20 minutes and waste hours waiting for the cursed things to recharge!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 12:46:23 PM by XeonPony »
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

XeonPony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
  • Country: ca
  • Sanity is over rated!
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2010, 12:51:27 PM »
Hello

We live in a medium populated area, just out side of a town of about 12k.
We have a shallow well and use the water for bathing and laundry, we use bottled water for drinking and cooking.
Although we use bottle water for consumption, we do use the well water for brushing our teeth.
I installed a water softener a number of years ago, although we don't have any type of filtering system in place.
The water has always been "crystal clear" and with out odor.
No rust stains in the tub or "john".    I suppose I should consider ourselves lucky!
I'd like to eliminate our use of bottle water, hence my interest in your thread.

Although there hasn't been others posting here looking at the numbers (206 at this time), there are others here that are following your progress. 
Looking forward to your posted results.

ax7
Mark

Where water is scarce RO is the worst choice of options, I originally was considering it then decided against for that very reason.  A person doesn't need deminerilized water, one would just need microbial safe water which can be more then accomplished with the Ozone & UV as a complimentary system, mechanical filters all so remove the bulk of the UV resistive cysts and organisms, the ozone kills off any survivors from the UV and lends it self to very fresh tasting oxygenated water :)
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

XeonPony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
  • Country: ca
  • Sanity is over rated!
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2010, 03:08:34 PM »
After reviewing my design and some thinking I am going to remove the check valve going to the hot water tank, as any back flow will go through the treatment system, that will add 45gallons of extra water storage in total to the system.

The filter group will all so go:   3/4" check valve > 60>20>5>1 microns > UV > O3 / storage barrels > 3/4" check valve > 5micron Carbon > POU

May add a dump solenoid/timer system on the 60 micron centrifugal filter to automate its purging cycle

*POU = Point of Use
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

SteveCH

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 129
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2010, 03:33:42 PM »
We used rain/snow water for years, now on a well. For drinking, I put in a reverse osmosis. They do waste some water in the purification process, some of them quite a lot. I found the BlueAir model [they are probably best known for their air filtration units] and it wastes only a half gallon per gallon treated. Much less. Still something to consider if you have a slow flowing or minimal well or other source.

They also only have one filter, a carbon canister thing that we replace once a year for $50. Some of the inexpensive brands/models I considered used far more water [up to several gallons dumped for every gallon treated] and had involved filter systems that had to be replaced once or twice a year, at least, for up to $200 a whack and in one case, over $300. Ouch!!!! On that basis, ours will pay for itself in filters, or lack of need for them, in a reasonable time.

The down side to the BlueAir is its high price, over $2000. But, very little filter element cost after installation, and it works very well.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 03:36:19 PM by SteveCH »

thirteen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 882
  • Country: us
  • Single going totally off grid 1,1, 2013
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2010, 06:41:47 AM »
I have the nicest water supply. There are 4 good springs that I can use but they are not developed yet. 611 days until I get up there ful time and retire from life and people and then I'll go nuts in about 10 years. I get my water from the creek in front of the house. I use a Berklley(sp) Water Filter system for my drinking water. Filters are $23, I change filters every 5000 g. It sits in the counter and I put a small float in it during the summer when I end up using more drinking water. It always has water ready to drink.  The water is pumped from the creek and just a 5 micron filter is used for the ondemand water heater for showers and other things.  I plumbed my old style propane heated water tank into the line going to my ondemand water heater and took the drain water from my shower and ran it thru the middle of the tank. Everything was removed and I plumbed my drain under it.  My shower is in the second floor my tank is on the first. It helps heat up the water just a bit before it goes into the heater.  There is usually two to three people taking showers back to back so it works ok.  My nieghbor above me got a 2500g stainless steel tank from a dairy that went out of business. He gets most of his water from the creek before it dries up and then from the rain runoff from his roof.  He has to filter it thru three different filters before drinking it. He put a shed around the tank and piped in a heat duct from around his wood stove exhaust and it keeps it from freezing during the winter and cold spring weather. His tank is above his house so he has gravity feed to supply his water indoors. Wpuld a bigger tank help or just a hassle to keep clean? Just an idea to toss or laugh at.
MntMnROY 13

XeonPony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
  • Country: ca
  • Sanity is over rated!
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2010, 03:54:46 PM »
well got the air compressor built for the ozone system, just need to make a new dielectric sleeve for the corona discharge cell.

and for the awww cute factor a disgruntaled 10 day old puppy (She setled down after a second or two, and she was well suported, it doesn't look like it but I can assure you she was!)
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

XeonPony

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 574
  • Country: ca
  • Sanity is over rated!
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2010, 04:57:37 PM »
well been working on digging the pit for the barrels, nothing to report as to the system it's self.
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

BigBreaker

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 302
Re: My water storage - treatment system
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2010, 10:33:28 AM »
No one has mentioned slow sand filters.  They are simple and cheap but do require a bit of TLC from time to time.  London, England uses them to treat water coming out of their reservoir.  The anti-microbial and fine filtration come from a bio-film of benign bacteria and fungus.  I know - sounds gross - but it works really well.  You periodically need to clear and reestablish the bio-film but potentially that could be automated by back flushing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_filter


Also - on the RO front - no one said you had to waste the waste water from the filter.... I'd plumb it for toilets.