Author Topic: Wood Gasifier  (Read 7614 times)

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harley1782000

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Wood Gasifier
« on: December 15, 2011, 11:34:36 AM »
Long time since I have been back on the board.  I have a simple question to ask.  What is the effects on the environment using a wood gasifier to run a generator?  I know wind, solar, hydro are the best when it comes down to being clean.  Just how bad is a Gasifier.

Jim

Bruce S

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 01:13:02 PM »
That really depends on where the wood comes from, I would think.
If places are cutting down old growth or slash cutting trees just  willy-nilly then the damage could be serious.
However; if they are using scraps or managed tree farms for fuel, then that's a different story.
The exhaust from these are quite clean if built correctly, since the gas is a mixture of carbon monoxide and hydrogen, plus a few other traces of "stuff".

I would think that on start up of the main burner the smoke could be considered a hazard and is dirty when cold. The potash left over is usable for making lye soap :-).
Hope that helps
Bruce S
PS> Welcome back :)
You can educate out ignorance, you can work out of poverty, BUT you cannot fix "stupid".
author "Bruce S"

harley1782000

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2011, 03:57:08 PM »
The reason why I asked about how clean it was is, I have a 2.3 ford 4 cylinder motor that I had considering making it into a wood gas truck.  I have an old ford ranger that is missing an engine so I thought I would screw around with it.  The only reason why I have not started it yet is around here we have the emission laws with the sniffer that goes up the tail pipe and I don't know if it would pass or not.  So that is why I was wondering just how clean it burns.  I would strip all the emission crap off of the motor.  Unless I could run gas or wood gas in it.  That way for inspection it would pass.  Then I don't know if the emission controls on the motor would like wood gas.  Not sure even how that would work or even how to set it up. 

Now I have been watching videos and reading allot but haven't come across any that are set up for both.  Just wood gas.

Most of the wood that will be burned in it would be from standing locus trees that have been dead.  It would be chunked up and let sit for at least another year to further dry.

Jim

frackers

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2011, 05:33:21 PM »
Take a look at the  Planet Mechanic stuff from a few years back. Lots of details in the video even if not spoken of directly in the script!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61mBSrd4Lj4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Itakr16HwlA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAXsDx9ztSA

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divemaster1963

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2011, 07:31:02 PM »
I have been toying around with gasifiers for a while. I have a friend and we are building one to run generators with. there is a guy out in Texas that is selling them to run trucks with. they are very high.  The only time you should be blowing smoke is at startup but only for a short time if you start burning it off. after that you would be considered carbon negative. ( the byproduct of ash can be used as a soil additive. trees pull CO2 out of the air and use it gasifing it you release that co2 and it burns with the H2  and the result is carbon neutral to a slight carbon negative.) personally I am going to use shavings and wood chips from trees that I plane to make Beehive boxes.(I have alot of irons in the fire).

John

Bruce S

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2011, 07:15:11 AM »
Here's a link to a magazine I've been reading. It'll have links to other people who are doing these, I think it has the person in Texas you're writing about too:-)

http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/
Enjoy,
Bruce S
You can educate out ignorance, you can work out of poverty, BUT you cannot fix "stupid".
author "Bruce S"

harley1782000

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2011, 12:29:52 PM »
I understand on how to construce the gasifier but what I am wondering if anyone has a good design on the pot (Where the fire is).  Not sure on how I should make one.  Does anyone got some pics or some designs of one.  I was thinking of a cone shape then maybe one like a coal stove with grates.  Kind of hung on that part at the moment.

Jim

Dolph1983

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2011, 03:31:59 PM »
Hi,

I've been looking at how i can run a gasifier with my heat recovery system to convert the waste heat from the engine and gasifier into electricity which would reduce the load on the alternator and therefore increase efficiency by reducing the alternator's load on the engine.

basically i would pipe my recovery unit in series into the coolant circuit, ie, take the coolant and pipe it through my system which would give the engine the necessary cooling and then send the coolant to the radiator for any extra cooling if required.

A gasifier seems to be fairly efficient but it wastes a lot of energy as heat,  if my unit can convert the waste heat it would run even more efficient.

take a look if you like;

www.biogen.webs.com

Thanks
ww.biogen.webs.com

divemaster1963

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2011, 06:53:35 PM »
I understand on how to construce the gasifier but what I am wondering if anyone has a good design on the pot (Where the fire is).  Not sure on how I should make one.  Does anyone got some pics or some designs of one.  I was thinking of a cone shape then maybe one like a coal stove with grates.  Kind of hung on that part at the moment.

Jim

Hey Jim

Maybe this will help. I pulled off a bing search for gasifier design pictures.


harley1782000

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2011, 06:30:51 AM »
I have been toying around with gasifiers for a while. I have a friend and we are building one to run generators with. there is a guy out in Texas that is selling them to run trucks with. they are very high.  The only time you should be blowing smoke is at startup but only for a short time if you start burning it off. after that you would be considered carbon negative. ( the byproduct of ash can be used as a soil additive. trees pull CO2 out of the air and use it gasifing it you release that co2 and it burns with the H2  and the result is carbon neutral to a slight carbon negative.) personally I am going to use shavings and wood chips from trees that I plane to make Beehive boxes.(I have alot of irons in the fire).

John

Would you happen to have any pics of your build?  I would be intrested in see what yours looks like.

Jim

divemaster1963

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2011, 03:52:24 PM »
I don't have any photos. I am still in the accumalation phase of garthering things up. When I begin I will post picts.

john

harley1782000

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2011, 08:03:32 AM »
I guess my last question would be how long will the engine last running on wood gas?  With the proper cleaning of the gas before it gets to the engine.  Will it have the same life span as a engine that just runs on gasoline with regular maitence.

Jim

Todd T

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2012, 07:43:37 AM »
I've been working on gasification for about four years. No question of whether or not it will work. It was the fuel of necessity for most of Europe during WWII. But, it does require attention to detail. I worked with a startup company that had a few PhD's and other guys with lots of initials behind their names... and they ruined a brand new 20kw generator in less than 50 hours because they didn't understand the importance of temperature and filtration.

As for passing EPA sniffer tests, that shouldn't be a problem. I visited one federal research facility that is doing wood gasification for net metering. Being a govt operation, they had to invite the state DEQ out to see if they needed any air release permits. Bottom line: no release, no permit needed. The exhaust was in line with any other stationary genset. However, I don't know if those rules are different than for cars.

An option... keep gasoline as an option. Or, go propane and be even cleaner.

The best online forum for wood gasification is the yahoo group: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/

By the way, I run my small business off the grid and plan on adding a gasifier to my Ford F-150 with a 300-six engine. I also want to use it to power a 12kw generator.

Revolutionary

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2012, 08:37:38 PM »
Todd, I have a generator I bought this year specifically for the purpose of running it on woodgas- & I don't know nearly enough about it (woodgas). My generator is an older Hercules/White, the same engine they used in the Jeeps, a G1600. It's a 4 cylinder, 164CI, and runs a 12KW generator at 1800 RPM. I've read that with woodgas you can't run over 2800 RPM because the woodgas lights off slower than regular gasoline. Any truth there?

I'd be happy to pay someone who really KNOWS about this stuff for information, I also have this issue with being in the Pacific Northwest; we don't have hardwoods, so not sure if the wood we have would even work for it. Any info appreciated-
Chris

REdiculous

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2012, 10:59:20 AM »
I'd be happy to pay someone who really KNOWS about this stuff for information, I also have this issue with being in the Pacific Northwest; we don't have hardwoods, so not sure if the wood we have would even work for it. Any info appreciated-
Chris

PSN has Oak and Madrone for sure. Softer woods should work fine too but you might need a slightly larger stockpile.

You'd need to be able to tweak the gasifier (to some degree) for the fuel-at-hand anyway.
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Dutch John

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2012, 12:54:56 AM »
Right, I happen to know something about gasification. First about emissions: engine emissions improve compared to fossil fuels. Tarry gas could give bad emissions, but not for long, since your engine will give up soon.

If you build yourself, start with a proven design and dimensioning. Even then it will be hard to build the ultimate gasifier. It is like building a house: your third house will satisfy. Building a gasifier is one thing, having a steady fuel supply is the long term difficulty. And expect to have a gadget that will ask for much attention, every hour that it runs and many hours when it does not run. You can read more about gasification on my website: http://woodgas.nl/

I skipped my plan to build a co-gen on woodgas, just because the amount of labor and attention that comes after building a setup. Solar and wind are lazy methodes and on the long term certainly not more expensive. Having a woodgas powered generator for emergency backup is of course a safe solution.

Regards,
DJ

frackers

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2012, 03:34:13 AM »
I understand on how to construce the gasifier but what I am wondering if anyone has a good design on the pot (Where the fire is).  Not sure on how I should make one.  Does anyone got some pics or some designs of one.  I was thinking of a cone shape then maybe one like a coal stove with grates.  Kind of hung on that part at the moment.

Jim

Go talk to your local compressed gas supplier and see if you can get an old oxygen cylinder - these are rated to over 3000 psi and cut off the bottom which is the best part of 2 inches thick and of good quality steel. Should survive a while :)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 03:37:14 AM by frackers »
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Harold in CR

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2012, 12:07:09 PM »

 I have a friend that lives in BC, Canada.

 He has built a gasifier and runs a Ford F-150 Pickup. I will contact hin, and see if he would be interested in participating in this thread.

 There is another guy that tours the USA, giving demos and talks on Gasification. He has a well designed unit, that takes up very little space in his Dodge Pickup.

12AX7

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2012, 05:42:54 PM »
Some may question the amount of useable  fuel in "smoke" so I like to point to this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hG7Mbkj2AQ

Harold in CR

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2012, 07:05:22 AM »

 I contacted my friend in BC,Canada. He looked at the thread, and then told me, Dutch John is much more able to help than anything my friend could offer.  8) So, there you have it.

 The other guy wants a fee for consulting. Can't say I blame him, but, that's not helping the DIY crowd.

equiluxe

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2012, 03:04:29 AM »
You should read, Producer gas for motor vehicles by John D. Cash and Martin G. Cash. It is available as a reprint from Lindsay Publications inc. It is an Australian book from 1942. It is very detailed as to both the chemistry and mechanics involved as well instructions on running and maintenance.

OperaHouse

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2012, 07:32:34 AM »
My gassifier is bigger than your gassifier.

This was a fun R&D  project back in the 70's.  We gassified coal from all over the world.  A lot of the "coal" looked just like topsoil.  This picture is of 1 ton/hr 300psi of Pittsburg #8.

Kingfish

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Re: Wood Gasifier
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2012, 09:56:11 AM »
 I built a simple gasifier using a can in a can and was able to light the gas and burn it. There are many out there on you tube running small engines and cars off wood gas.  I have an old 1947 Allis Chalmers tractor which is in great condition. It has a pto drive that will run pretty much any size generator I would need. All I have to do is build the gasifier(or buy one). I am buying a good wire welder here shortly so I can start building the unit.  My plan is to use this gasifier for charging my battery bank.

  Recently on craigs list I found another 1946 Allis just like mine without wheels on it for 800.00  with a completely rebuilt engine which would make a perfect engine for this project .  Generator heads can be purchased from several places.  As I am in Michigan and surrounded by thousands of acres of oak forests I see wood as my greatest resource. Using wood to make power just plain makes the most sense here.