Author Topic: Steam Engine!!!  (Read 20462 times)

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Mary B

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2017, 02:11:07 PM »
Add a speed controller to the burner feed and the blower and you can control your boiler temps!

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2017, 05:09:06 PM »
Here's the PWM speed controller that I have got.

https://www.amazon.com/Yeeco-Controller-Variable-Regulator-Protection/dp/B00RXKNT5S/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1496617007&sr=8-9&keywords=12v+pwm+motor+controller

the burner needs as much as top speed so im using as much the blower can provide. Im and its working as fastest speed as possible.

I had doubt's that I could not achieve the performance as the shop air. So the blower is now catching up to the performance. 

 

eigenmorph

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2017, 04:08:03 AM »
Would it be out of order to suggest that your blower motor may be maxxed out because the impeller load is insufficient. Perhaps fitting a pair of impellers in parallel will provide improved airflow from the same motor at lower rpm. If the impeller is stalling at the high rpm, then putting a pair in series might be an alternative.

Something I came across recently in an old Model Engineer magazine (No 3209 10 Jan 1962) was a Brayton engine from the late 1800s. One version used steam injection along with the combustion fuel. The engine was basically an early supercharged 2 stroke. It may not look much through modern eyes, but Mr Brayton had a good idea.

All the best

Jim Cahill   

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2017, 07:49:59 PM »
Quote
If the impeller is stalling at the high rpm, then putting a pair in series might be an alternative.

Yes this is a valid point.

With the speed control module I have found that lowering the impeller speed the air grabs better.

I have a bench test 5 stage turbine to max airflow and this solves impeller speed stall problem, and defines ideal air flow for prototypes.

eigenmorph

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2017, 03:51:31 AM »
You refer to a 5 stage turbine.

There may be a difference of terminology between the US and UK. To us, a "Turbine" operates on a favourable pressure gradient, whereas an "Impeller" or "Compressor" operates against an adverse pressure gradient. For that reason airflow breaks down on the latter much sooner than on a turbine. Think of axial flow gas turbines. You will know that they have many more compressor stages than turbine stages. The reason is the pressure gradients.
 

george65

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2017, 07:53:07 AM »

Is this blower to fan up a Corn fired burner?
If so, why not use something with a much higher energy density and easier to control like oil? You could have any output you wanted and an extremely high turndown ratio as well.

I have done 200Kw burners that are pretty compact and could produce that output from 12V.

eigenmorph

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2017, 07:05:29 AM »
Perhaps JW is looking at situations where corn is available. In this locality of Ireland the farmer can expect about 40 Euro per ton for good grain. He might get a few Euros for the straw. Input costs are likely to be 60%   of that without considering the farmer's time or weather risks. Irrespective of its energy density, burning the crop directly can make more sense, provided the energy can be utilised.

I have to say that my preference is to produce Alcohol from the crop and burn the spent mash. The brewing and distillation processes are an excellent application for low grade heat and the product can be stored or sold. Enquiries I made with the Revenue Commissioners some years ago were not at all discouraging.

 


JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2017, 02:16:18 PM »
Hi All,

The reason I burn kernel corn is because its really cheep, also it burns clean. I figured this out the first time I burnt kerosene its REALY expensive.

I received the 2stage turbine today man that thing moves some air. Ive got to modify it so that I can change the speed of the blower. This is a blower that you would use the spray a HVLP painting. Although is is powered by 120vac It will set a benchmark that I will have to duplicate using 12vdc.  Ive completely gotten away from shop air (using piston air pump). 

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2017, 06:04:39 PM »
I have had sometime to digest all this.

Quote
If the impeller is stalling at the high rpm

Well I tried the multistage turbine for HVLP paint spraying and Im getting better results with a RoadPro RPSC-807 10" 12V Super Wet/Dry Vacuum with 1 Gallon Canister.

what I did was reverse the motor plate and turned it into a blower. I wonder about optimizing the impeller to prevent stall. I think Im doing good with what I have, but I would love to use a custom impeller that would press on a 1/8th shaft. If anyone does 3D printing let me know, I will make a video of the performance im getting with the stock impeller. And can provide the basic impeller im using.

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2017, 05:24:25 PM »
Have had several evolutions with my blowers, and am working on a final design will post some pictures soon  :)

eigenmorph

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2017, 07:12:03 AM »
Good to hear you've been making progress. Looking forward to seeing some pictures.
All the best.
Jim.

DamonHD edit: Jim: we generally have a no links (esp commercial) until ~50 posts.  Yours is fine on the commercial front, but could we keep it in the sig to avoid cluttering posts with unrelated links?  Ta.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 11:08:16 AM by DamonHD »

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2017, 03:55:25 PM »
Ive been having some difficulty getting the parts "just right" before final assembly. The picture with the fire is not at a blue flame and is common during start up.







JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2017, 05:17:00 PM »
Testing out the inline attachments

here are some pictures

10933-0
This is my 200amp TIG welder Its AC/DC I weld a lot of aluminum with it.

10934-1
I installed a rollup door for the area I work on my steam engine, There is a concrete slab where I roll things out side.

10935-2
This is a steam traction engine I spotted and took a pic


This is a steam condenser that I made

10937-4
This is a mockup were im assembling the air injection system


 
 

SparWeb

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2017, 05:49:36 PM »
You're going to cook your camera, taking pictures like the one of your steam injector!  :D

I'm trying to get a judgement of where you're going with your mock-up. 
It seems you already have the six tubes welded to the manifold, so what does the flex hose represent?
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2017, 06:25:41 PM »
The first generation of air injection/afterburner used compressed shop air, I had a valve to regulate flow. The first system was considered HPLV. It worked fantastic... The problem is that it was not stand alone, since it needed shop air.

The system worked like this, compressed air was heated really hot with steel tubing in the fire and dispersed into the 6 nozzles the nozzles were shrouded in 3/8 tubing. The actual supply of air discharged thru 1/8 copper tube. The preheating of the air injected was sufficient to burn carbon dust and made an excellent fire and a blue flame. The key is air preheating.

The air injection mock up uses 3/8 dia discharge nozzles compared to the 1/8 tube. The corrugated pipe is to preheat the air since it is directly in the fire stream and the ring that supports the 6 nozzles is also heated. But it is a LPHV system. I use a 12 volt blower/impeller for feeding air to the system and it makes the burner mobile using a 12 volt battery, to control flow I use a PWM speed controller.

   
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george65

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2017, 07:08:05 PM »
I have never burned corn but I have burned a LOT of veg oil and made a lot of burners using different principals for that.
I am interested in your belief the pre heated air makes a difference to the fire and why?
People telling me all the time on my YT channel about air preheating but I have not been able work out any benefit other than a small increase in transition speed from preheat to operating temp which is negligible anyway. Certainly whilst burning there is no difference/ benefit at all.

Any heat in the air is removed as it were from the fire so the net output will be the same. In my burners there is so much excess heat, ( things run red hot in normal operation) that air preheating serves no purpose. But you are not burning oil or working on the retained heat principal my burners work on so I'm interested to learn more about what the pincipals involved with what you are doing are.

From your pictures it seems the corn burns under the air injection nozzles, is that correct?
Have you also worked out what the KW heating value is from your burner?  That engine looks like a LOT of thermal mass and water to get up to temp.
I would think you'd be wanting significant output to get it up to steam in a timely manner.

I'd love to be able to throw one of my burners at something like a steam engine.  My small burners do 200Kw+ and the largest I have verified is 600KW but I have taken it over 1000 only didn't accurately measure it.  There really is no limit to what they can put out other than practacality. Even throwing 50Kw at a metal melting furnace tends to melt the furnace itself.
I had a heat exchanger that came out of a gas boiler that heated an Olympic size pool and was rated at 200Kw. I over powered that pretty easily ( and scarily!)
A steam engine I think would be a great use for one of these burners and probably be able to set a record for going from dead cold to full pressure.  :0)

I have also used 12V blowers on my burners. They were boat bilge blowers and had them on a PWM as well although for my use, I pretty much ran the things flat out anyway and the controller was only used to regulate the start-up air.... which I could do every bit as well with a piece of cardboard over the inlet of the blower as a choke.

Air preheating aside, I think your burner would work well for oil if it were inverted and placed in a deep pan.  If you don't get enough heat with corn,  I'm thinking you should be able to get at least 100Kw with that setup on oil.  You'd get a lot more with a bigger blower.  An option may be to use a couple of batteries, a 12/24V inverter and a 110/ 220V blower.  My favourites are those used for jumping castles but they may be a bit bulky for your needs. They are cheap off fleabay though.  In any case there are certainly a lot more available in mains power than 12V.

That said, a lot of hair-dryers  use 12V motors and as well as doing good volume, they also by design do good air pressure. With the convoluted tube you are using of  smallish diameter, pressure is a consideration as well and  high speed fans are much better at that than something like most 12V blowers. You could also use more than one hairdryer if needed as they could be modified to be pretty compact once you took away the heating elements, switches and superfluous housing.

As you are preheating the air, could you use steam once the boiler was up to speed for your burner air?  I imagine a 1'/4 line at even 50 PSI and set up in an inducer fashion to pull in more air and drop the pressure would give a real good airflow. The steam should not be a worry as it will remain above condensing temps. If this could be made workable, You'd only need the blower to raise steam on once you had, the engine could be totally self sufficient.
Can the corn be burned on a grate like wood or coal? ( with a smaller mesh of course. )

Just an idea but I'd be very interested to know more on your thoughts about the preheated air and it's effect and what sort of KW output you are getting from burning corn.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 07:20:48 PM by george65 »

JW

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Re: Steam Engine!!!
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2017, 07:48:33 PM »
You make some good points, cant list them all, meaning I agree with your observations but I can do my best to make a decent overview.

Quote
Corn weighs 56 pounds/bushel and has a heat value when dried to 15% moisture content of about 7,000 Btu/lb or 300,000 Btu/bu. In other words, assuming a furnace or boiler efficiency of 75%, one bushel is equal to 2.9 gallons of #2 fuel oil, 4 ccf of natural gas or 4.4 gallons of propane.

Quote
Burning Shelled Corn --A Renewable Fuel Source]

http://www.neo.ne.gov/neq_online/july2006/cornbtu.pdf


This is a copy of a fully operation of a advanced burner, its my patent application which was denied.
http://flashsteam.com/corn-burners-solid-fuel-burners

The question is how many pounds of corn is burned per hour.