Author Topic: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.  (Read 137949 times)

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Steadfast

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Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« on: May 30, 2012, 08:33:28 PM »
Thanks to the generosity of Chris Olson for his Gift of an Axial Generator and for David Moller at "royal wind and solar's” gift of 3 new wooden blades, I will start building my first 7ft, scaled down HomeBrew bird... and I will post my progress as I go...
 
This Heavy Bird (HBird) is sponsored and being constructed to "prove a point" raised by the folks here, that the Axial Generator is superior to all Delco PMA light wind turbine designs, even in a class 1 wind region of the Raleigh NC. area.

There has been MUCH consternation and debate raging about my other light wind (LBird) turbine build which has a custom built and innovated Experimental Hurricane PMA as its heartbeat. Tony who owns the company read some of the inflammatory debate aimed at his PMA design, got mad, and decided to bust out and build me a whole new experimental PMA he had been designing on paper for a few years. He has been building it and testing it for over 2.5 months now and I am due to receive it in the mail this week. He did it "just to stick it to those Guys on Otherpower."

Here is the link to the LBird's build:
http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,146527.0.html
the topic is 24 pages long and to date has over 26 thousand hits!

The topic is also an amazing teaching tool for anyone just starting out "wanting to build me a turbine".
I know this because when I started that string I knew NOTHING about how to do this.
It is literally my learning curve as it happened.

I am neutral in this fight and will record every performance detail of both turbines for one month each.
The winner will get the exalted status of remaining a top my tower as my main turbine... 
And, of course... BRAGIN RIGHTS....

May the best turbine win!
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« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 08:44:18 PM by Steadfast »
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2012, 08:35:34 PM »
AND here is where the HBird's story begins!

well well well....looky what I got in the mail....

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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2012, 06:47:38 PM »
Wood blades made courtesy of David Moller of Royal Wind and Solar
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fabricator

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 07:38:50 PM »
Hey! Careful with those! Don't knock the paint off, that is one thing you need to be sure of with wood blades, no nicks in the paint for water to get in.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2012, 07:42:38 PM »
I plan to paint them bronze with red tips useing engine enamel... and automotive clear coat... nothing but the best....
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 10:34:42 AM »
Fabs,
I plan to use the same color scheme as the "LBird" blades seen here:



Unless you guys want to post some photos of a cooler color schemes I should consider???
hint hint...  ;)

Soooo, If you guys wanna play "Paint Steadfast's HBird" I am still open to color shceme ideas...
(Although, the wife will have to agree with you in the end)  :-*
fortunatly she is not a "girly girl" so you can forget any pink ideas right now...  ;)
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« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 10:42:59 AM by Steadfast »
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012, 11:20:08 AM »

The generator I made for you was an old unit that was for a small 24 volt turbine and I opened up the airgap on it to drop the voltage for 12 volt and get the rpm up for the 7 foot GOE222 blades.

If I would've built it from the ground up for this application I would've built it different.  But it'll work, even on your poor wind site.  I just hope your tower can take it.

You can fly car alternators with barn fan blades on a 2" pipe because they don't make any power, so they don't make any significant thrust.  Turbines that create real power do it by extracting kinetic energy from the wind, and that creates thrust.

I'll guarantee you this - the first time you get wind gusting over 20 mph with all that turbulence from being close to the ground, and that 7 foot turbine gets wrapped up to 600 rpm, it will shake your tower, and the shed it's attached to, right to the foundation.

You're going to fly the toy one first and learn the basics.  When you put the real one up you'd better shut up, sit down and hang on, because it ain't gonna' be no hayride when the wind blows.
--
Chris

Chris and I spoke about this problem and we believe this idea may just work:

This is my idea for a Reinforcement Sleeve to protect mast against failure above cable ring due to horizontal turbine trust. It is a series of angle Iron to be welded directly to the mast.


By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2012, 12:17:31 PM »
I just spoke to Tony at Hurricane,
He called to give me a heads up
that he will have my PMA delivered by Next Saturday…
even if he has to reward me for my patience by sending me a modified duel PMA as an upgrade…

I told him to send me whatever he most wants the world to see through my video reports…

So... I will be working on the Chris/David “HBird” project this Saturday instead…
Photos and video will soon be posted...
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

tanner0441

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 03:33:25 PM »
Hi

How do you intend to paint the wood blades? There is a chance of upsetting the balance, if your going to spray them it gives you a better chance.  I found this out when I first had my turbine, the fibre glass blades had an absolutely crap finish, a real risk of fibre glass splinters I had to sand them smooth then spray them, I used 2 pack acrylic car paint, the one blade was still rough so it had another sanding and more paint. It was just enough to make the thing shake on the mast, my mast is only 30ft three of the sections that came with the turbine and a length of scafolding pipe at the bottom.  I sorted it with another couple of coats of paint on the other two blades.  Now the mast vibrates when under load but not shaking the top of the mast.

As for reinforcing the mast could you not just make another mast from larger dia and thicker section tube. ~I am not convinced all the welding on the mast you have could cause stress cracking or distortion as it cools down.  I know the aluminium I used to weld on the boats could go all shapes.

The mast you photographed about a month ago looked like a lamp post we have on the streets round here, they are about 35ft with the bit they bury.

Brian.

equiluxe

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 04:14:54 PM »

The generator I made for you was an old unit that was for a small 24 volt turbine and I opened up the airgap on it to drop the voltage for 12 volt and get the rpm up for the 7 foot GOE222 blades.

If I would've built it from the ground up for this application I would've built it different.  But it'll work, even on your poor wind site.  I just hope your tower can take it.

You can fly car alternators with barn fan blades on a 2" pipe because they don't make any power, so they don't make any significant thrust.  Turbines that create real power do it by extracting kinetic energy from the wind, and that creates thrust.

I'll guarantee you this - the first time you get wind gusting over 20 mph with all that turbulence from being close to the ground, and that 7 foot turbine gets wrapped up to 600 rpm, it will shake your tower, and the shed it's attached to, right to the foundation.

You're going to fly the toy one first and learn the basics.  When you put the real one up you'd better shut up, sit down and hang on, because it ain't gonna' be no hayride when the wind blows.
--
Chris

Chris and I spoke about this problem and we believe this idea may just work:

This is my idea for a Reinforcement Sleeve to protect mast against failure above cable ring due to horizontal turbine trust. It is a series of angle Iron to be welded directly to the mast.



What will happen with that design is the guy wires will act as fulcrums and the tower tube will bow out below the guy wires, it will also be extremely top heavy when erecting the tower and may cause you grief at that point too. 

fabricator

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 07:01:48 PM »
Extend the angle down to the next guy anchor and you'll be fine, personally I would never mount any turbine to a building, both of those are gonna shake that shed something fierce, especially with the turbulance you got there, that noise get old real quick, I tried some three foot all aluminum blades on the roof of my 60x80 pole barn, it was a constant vibrating moan.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

just-doug

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 07:17:10 PM »
three sets of guys is probaly your best bet at stiffening that limber pole

fabricator

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 08:08:56 PM »
Fabs,
I plan to use the same color scheme as the "LBird" blades seen here:



Unless you guys want to post some photos of a cooler color schemes I should consider???
hint hint...  ;)

Soooo, If you guys wanna play "Paint Steadfast's HBird" I am still open to color shceme ideas...
(Although, the wife will have to agree with you in the end)  :-*
fortunatly she is not a "girly girl" so you can forget any pink ideas right now...  ;)
.
.
.

I'd paint them ugly sons of bitches some stealth color so people couldn't see em.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

birdhouse

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 09:18:29 PM »
steadfast-
can you now see a difference between an airfoil, and a drag based blade?  those GOE 222's or whatever they are,  have a pretty awesome airfoil...  compared to the falcons. 

i'll second chris with a 6-7' blade set of those blades from dave, coupled with then gen from chris WILL topple your tower. 

the angle iron idea will help with a bent tower stub, but i'd still be weary about the rest of the tower.  any chance you could get some 20' sticks of the same angle iron, and run it full 20' from the top down?  stiffen up the whole rig?? 

you have a very unusual tower rig, and i wouldn't be afraid of adding more steel to it!  :D

adam

fabricator

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2012, 06:41:38 AM »
I'm weary of the tower.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

thirteen

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2012, 07:06:01 AM »
If you have a balance problem add a white dot in the center of the red tip weights could ba added at that piont if needed. I would like to have seen wide striping on the end then a narrower one next and get smaller as you went. It would look like a funnel. I've done that to several things. I have even barber poled a drum on a hot asphalt plant.   
MntMnROY 13

midwoud1

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2012, 10:41:00 AM »
Steadfast.
Forget the angle iron.
I had made a reinforcement with 8 mm round rebar.
Working good for years.
Lightweight and strong.

 - Frans -
 

Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2012, 07:27:54 PM »
This is the work done today...
and yes...
There was A LOT of it done.

lets start with a welding "Action Shot"...
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2012, 07:43:19 PM »
I discovered some worrisome cracks this morning in the stater...Should I be concerned???? 
I was thinking of caking on some epoxy with a strip of steel over the entire surface of the crack...



and now the photos of the incredible progress we made today.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 07:58:25 PM by Steadfast »
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2012, 07:51:06 PM »
The new bracket which will hold the axial generator pitched at a 8% angle upward.


8% angle displayed with the Chis' Axial Generator installed.






« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 08:05:36 PM by Steadfast »
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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2012, 07:54:12 PM »
Tail installed: this ia a "homebrew" by the book designed for a 7ft turbine.
you can see the tail vane as it glue drys on the dolly in the back ground.



Tail assembly in full furrel position.


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Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2012, 08:00:10 PM »
Steadfast.
Forget the angle iron.
I had made a reinforcement with 8 mm round rebar.
Working good for years.
Lightweight and strong.

 - Frans -
My father in Law and I are seriously thinking about modifying your design.
Can you upload some photos of it?
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fabricator

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2012, 08:10:05 PM »
Your FIL does a relatively fair job with a buz box, what rod is he using?
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.

Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2012, 08:12:58 PM »
I am not sure...
And, we just bought a 20 pound box of the rods today too...  :-[

Yes... He is quite amazing!
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tanner0441

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2012, 02:38:13 AM »
Hi

bonding bits of steel to the a stator is not the best way to do it... A bit of fibreglass tape would be far better.

Brian.

Steadfast

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2012, 05:42:36 AM »
I discovered some worrisome cracks this morning in the stater...Should I be concerned???? 
I was thinking of caking on some epoxy with a strip of steel over the entire surface of the crack...
I was thinking about unbolting it.
 Caking on some epoxy over the cracked area. On both sides.
 Bonding a strip of steel, with a bolt hole, to the glue. On both sides.
re bolting it all togeather again.

Are you suggesting using fiberglass tape in place of the epoxy?
By Hook or by Crook - Prayer, Persistence and Tenacity will win the day!

fabricator

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Re: Light Wind Heavy Weight Turbine Project - as I build it.
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2012, 06:23:55 AM »
Mostly he is suggesting you don't want to go drilling holes in the stator because there are coils in there and you don't want to drill into a coil.
Those cracks would likely not be a problem because there is not  lot of stress or torque on the stator, if you want to do something just get some heavy fiberglass cloth and some West System epoxy from West Marine mix up the epoxy and paint it on the stator on both sides, put the cloth in the epoxy and  work it with a plastic bondo type trowell until all the cloth is wetted and you can hardley see it any more then apply some more epoxy and smooth it all out.
But also bear in mind Chris's stators are full of fiberglass cloth and fibers anyway, it aint like that chunk is gonna just break off.
I aint skeerd of nuthin.......Holy Crap! What was that!!!!!
11 Miles east of Lake Michigan, Ottawa County, Robinson township, (home of the defacto residential wind ban) Michigan, USA.