Author Topic: Simple large homemade battery .  (Read 14430 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

allenbee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: za
Simple large homemade battery .
« on: June 23, 2012, 03:45:57 PM »
Hello ya all , I am allen a 66 year old retired (poor) toolmaker/designer .
I need technical help to develop , manufacture and sell a cheap system to the rural poor of South Africa .       
The requirement here ; is lights , cell charge , music and TV . Thats it !                                   A MASSIVE improvement to the lives of at least 20 million people, in this mess of a country .

Because the masses cook with fire , a steam engine generator seems a good choice . Wind power and solar is totally out as its too expensive , and ANYTHING outside will be stolen anyway . 100% guaranteed .

Apart from dangerous steam , the only other option seems to be a large bank of batteries, like fuel cells that can be manually charged by replacing deleted common "fuels" .

Here in S.A. the masses know about lead , copper and aluminum (because its sold to scrapyards all the time) . They familiar with supermarket products too like bleach etc .

So - this is the type of help I'm hoping for.....please .


dnix71

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1799
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 07:36:04 PM »
If people cook with fire, a solar oven would save them money.

Battery banks are expensive and don't last long. If the appliance already has a battery (like a cell phone, portable mp3 player or portable tv http://www.frys.com/product/6992687 ) then all you need is a small solar panel with adapters.

http://www.amazon.com/Revolve-Electronics-xeMini-Plus-Charger/dp/B0041OS8IW This panel with an internal battery and adapters will charge from a car, mains power or the sun and can be used to charge cell phones and the like.

Frank S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
  • Country: us
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2012, 02:26:21 AM »
If people cook with fire, a solar oven would save them money.

Battery banks are expensive and don't last long. If the appliance already has a battery (like a cell phone, portable mp3 player or portable tv http://www.frys.com/product/6992687 ) then all you need is a small solar panel with adapters.

http://www.amazon.com/Revolve-Electronics-xeMini-Plus-Charger/dp/B0041OS8IW This panel with an internal battery and adapters will charge from a car, mains power or the sun and can be used to charge cell phones and the like.

  Having been to SA I might understand the gravity of his situation more than others most people have never heard anything about South Africa except for what might make the news when it is politically profitable to speak of it.
  The only way solar panels could be used would be if you could somehow lock the min a bunker with a armed guards, then you would need a guard to guard the guards. The place is saturated with one facet of militia or religious  dunderheads or hired mercenaries who are out for 1 thing and that is to subvert and enslave as many as possible for there personal gains.
 A small rule community with a large community oven that could also produce steam as a by product  utilizing wast heat would be one good option for them  to power a small generator which in turn could charge a large bank of batteries.
 Now lets step back 5000 years in technology
  start with constructing molds for clay vessels then fire these vessels to harden and seal them we now have our battery bottles  Next make low grade nickel iron plates, copper plates and lead plates all of these would need to be of the lowest grade possible with a very high porosity plus be easily replaceable, almost any chemically active fluid could be used to make the electrolyte, The efficiency wold be horrible perhaps as low as 15 to 25% but this could be made up for with large quantities of battery cells .
 this would be about as low tech approach as could be imagined.
  OK all Joking aside He has already said solar PV and wind are too expensive and or susceptible theft  leaving out  the means of electrical energy generation if is would be possible for them to make their own Edison type batteries for storage would I think be the best option.
 Any kind of charging controllers or inverters might have to be made from components procured from the local scrap yards.
 you guys are probably some of the most experts there are in those areas.
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

allenbee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: za
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2012, 04:42:46 AM »
Thank you Frank - you exactly on the money ! This country is 1st world AND 3rd world , outside of the "cities". (That is where the grid ends).                                                         

YES - we have to go backwards hundreds of years or so , and pick up the battery development and usage "then" and especially..... how to recharge ????
The inverters here (700 W ) are cheap enough , and plenty of 50 and 110mm PVC pipe at scrapyards for battery casings .                                                                                           Like you say - size is not important , but cost to recharge IS .  Labor - is free . Community sharing in S.A. is a joke !   Each home (+_ 10-20 people), must have their own power OR they must "pay" !

I do like the sound of the Edison battery , but Nickel is a problem unless theres a common alternative . I cannot find a simple diagram on Internet for a basic Edison battery !!!

From my experiments so far ; copper/zink in battery acid seems OK , but apart from galvanized (Zink) roof sheeting , how does one find Zink ?                                                   Does anyone know how long the zink coating on roof sheeting lasts , and if the sulfuric acid lasts - and just needs pure steamed water (distilled) to top up ?? Ya see - in S.A. we have to go backwards - to go forward . ha ha -- but true .

midwoud1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • Country: nl
  • There are more chiefs than indians
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2012, 05:56:02 AM »
Hi Allen, Frank,Dnix.

Here in Europe 12 volt batteries are dumped by the hundrets, at special collecting points .
We have to separate all our waste.
There are many of them they still have power . Check with multimeter.
Should be enough for your application.
I use it myself as well and I run a Watercooker, and Vacuumcleaner , TV, PC , Lighting ,chargers for Phone ,Photocamera , Cordless-drill , etc.
Have here 24 volt 230 Amps. , semi tractie  ( ex truck hydraulic load-platform.)
Old starter batteries work also.
The problem is transportation to South Africa.

 Regards - Frans -

allenbee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: za
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2012, 08:28:35 AM »
No Frans , transport is not the problem , and here too there are tons of old 12v DC batteries . The problem is batteries go flat - and how do you recharge them if you in the bush ???              NO power supply for battery chargers OR even a car to charge the battery !                           

Thats the problem , in the undeveloped rural areas of South Africa .                                            80% of this land houses the millions of the poor . NO ELECTRICITY !!!                                     

This is NOT like America , but thank you for your reply .
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 08:43:28 AM by allenbee »

ThomasJ

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Country: ca
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2012, 09:51:35 AM »
A few years ago I had a gold claim out in the middle of nowhere here in british columbia. I used an old gas powered lawn mower to spin a 1970's chevy altenator to charge some car batteries that we used to run our lights in camp and radio. I took the blade off the mower and put a pulley there. I then rigged a frame to mount the altenator just outside of the grass discharge chute and used a pulley between the two. The 1970's chevy altenators are internally regulated and all you have to do is close the field and hook them up to a 12v battery with a bit of juice and they will charge. One tank of fuel (approximately 1/2 litre) ran for about 1 hour and usually left the batteries with a decent charge.
I don't know if this is what you are looking for but hopefully it will help
governments should be afraid of their people, not the other way around

Frank S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
  • Country: us
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2012, 10:17:20 AM »
Allen you problem is three fold then
at first you asked about making a large battery.
 then you say that solar PV or wind generation would be too expensive an option
and the problem of theft.
 Well if as you say there are tons of old car or truck batteries to be had
 one problem has not gone away but has moved down on the urgency scale .
 SO lets talk about generation. First off I am going to state that the least favorite way to generate electricity on this forum is going to be my subject matter. which may be your most Viable short term limited low cost solution.
with minimal skills required to use.
  Car or truck Alternators are ready made battery chargers many are self regulating now-days. The main problem with them is the RPMs required for them to function properly. 2000to 3000 RPM  is a good middle range
 How would this be accomplished without anything more than the very basic Items.
 #1 Fire#2 water #3 boiler #4 delivery #5 a rotation device
OK you have fire and water making a free discharge boiler is not too difficult you would need a storage tank mounted  a few feet in the air. for a free discharge boiler a coil of tubing  this is going to get a little tricky because sizing is going to require enough volume to produce enough steam to spin the next rabbit I am about to pull out of the hat  and it will need to be mounted vertical in the chimney of a stone cooking hearth.
 A truck turbo charger in this case both the hot and the cold side may be used to spin it now we need  a water pump  the vanes can be knocked off and the shaft direct coupled to the turbo shaft on the cold side .a housing to connect the water pump and the inlet of the turbo would need to be fabricated. with a pipe connection  to deliver steam
 Now steam would enter the Turbo at the point it would have connected to the engine a cap would go over the exhaust with a pipe leading from there to the pipe on the inlet side now you have made use of both sets of turbine  blades and maximized  the use of the steam expansion the outlet of the cold side of the turbo now is plumbed down  the final condenser and storage tank you now have potable water and get your batteries charged because you will connect the alt to the pulley on the water pump.
 Additionally an oil tank will need to be mounted above the turbo to keep the bearings lubed and one below to catch the oil.
 how the tanks are refilled will be done by labor any time  there is a fire in the hearth there would be steam and water distillation  and some charging of the batteries.
 Probably not very efficient but almost everything can be had from a scrap yard.
 
 
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

seilertechco

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Country: us
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2012, 10:24:40 AM »
Research "plant" battery and then start collecting old batteries for the lead.  How about an old car with a small engine and bad tranny?  Use it at low rpm to charge the battery, perhaps hooking up a few alternators via the belt.  Get really inventive and run the engine off of wood gas via a "gasifier" that can also be built locally and from waste.  Just my thoughts.  Toby

midwoud1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • Country: nl
  • There are more chiefs than indians

allenbee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: za
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2012, 11:38:04 PM »
Anyone have a link to home made Edison battery ? Or - how to make a simple fuel cell with common safe materials ? Does "other power" have a book on this ?

Frank - i'm still trying to understand your interesting post . Does it need high pressure steam to operate the turbine ?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 11:54:27 PM by allenbee »

Frank S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1372
  • Country: us
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2012, 02:10:05 AM »


Frank - i'm still trying to understand your interesting post . Does it need high pressure steam to operate the turbine ?

Actually the concept of it  uses low pressure high temp steam but high volume the pressure is dependent on the cold water head height.
 Admittedly there are issues with a concept of this design first off is the volume of steam it would take to produce  1 KW of shaft torque. next is turbos normally spin at very RPMs using high velocity exhaust gases  to produce compressed air that is delivered to an engine
 in this situation the steam pressure is going to be low
 next is to get the best use of steam you need to have a 2 stage expansion system the Turbo is such an animal  The hot side is the smaller turbine, steam would pass through this but instead of exhausting it is routed through the intake side of the cold side or the compressor side then exhausted to  condensing heat ex-changer nothing more than a large radiator. the out flow should be clean water
 The next problem is how to rotation movement from the turbine's shaft to a usable PTO. this is where the water pump would come in a coupling would be machined to replace the retaining nut on the turbo shaft connected to the shaft of the water pump. the two housings are coupled together VIA an adapter. next is the shaft seal of the water pump many of these are little more than 2 ceramic disc one is stationary in the water pump housing the other is mounted to the shaft with a spring to hold tension between them. the problem here is RPMs the Turbocharger is designed for very high RPMs the water pump is not since you will need low RPMs ( less than 4000 for the ALT the turbocharger would need to be off of an older truck say for instance an old Caterpillar engine Probably a Switzer 50  model
 Low pressure steam does not produce nearly as much energy as high pressure but 100 ton locomotives pulled some extremely heavy loads using  4 pistons and we are only talking about needing  2 to 3  HP but it would take quite a lot of steam
other concepts would be to forget the steam and make a gasifier 

steam turbine video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24OSe3tCEAU&feature=related
 I thought this was cute http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=73txXT21aZU
I live so far outside of the box, when I die they will stretch my carcass over the coffin

joestue

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 949
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2012, 02:43:28 AM »
if i were in dire need of power i would look to use an organic Rankine cycle heat pump using propane as a heat fluid.
the boiler only needs to hold 30 atmospheres, 35 if you push it close to the critical point. 
because propane is 3 times the molecular weight of water, you can build a turbine blade from sheet metal and drive an induction motor at 7200-12000 rpm directly, immersing the entire induction motor turned generator in the cold side of the turbine (50-70C, ~10 atmospheres)  thus no bearings and seals to worry about, aside from the grease in the ball bearings dissolving into the stream of propane, which is something you would have to deal with but on a predictable basis.

but aside from turbine solutions, solar panels are cheap.
1.5 USD/watt wholesale here in the states if you can find them for that price.
I have looked into importing the cell separately and building them in Kenya, but it would be more expensive than importing the panels once all the costs were accounted for.


however regarding building an industry from within Africa.. that is something that must happen from within.
if you live outside that country you must focus on the external predatory attitudes first IMO

midwoud1

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • Country: nl
  • There are more chiefs than indians
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2012, 05:16:13 AM »
Steam engine.
It seems to me them have low torque ,
Altough its connected with an alternator with volts on a multimeter.

http://www.greensteamengine.com/

Bruce S

  • Global Moderator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3819
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2012, 09:01:59 AM »
allenbee;
Before I go down any road I like to get an idea of what I have available.
Can you give us an idea of what "stuff" you do have available?
Long ago (decades) I visited your country side area on a humanitarian visit.  and there was already a need, there was "stuff" already that could be used.
Right now it would be good if we had an idea of what you have there.
Since labor is cheap/free I will also use that as part of the sourced materials.
Stuff like old TVs , old batteries large (truck) and small (car/motorcycle) , plastics, glass jars, kilns for firing clay, even steam engines. Also a few years back a group was introducing the Rocket stoves made out of Jerry thrown away cans. Do you have any of those available?
Bruce S
You can educate out ignorance, you can work out of poverty, BUT you cannot fix "stupid".
author "Bruce S"

allenbee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: za
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2012, 03:37:18 PM »
Thank you  Bruce . Yes our scrapyards have basically the same usable stuff as yours .
I'm trying to put together a BASIC power supply for the poor in RURAL areas .                         They have NO electricity at all .

I agree the best move is battery to inverter for light , cellphone , music and TV . (the requirement).                   

NOW - the obvious  problem is the battery goes flat , and there are NO CARS to recharge and NO main grid supply to recharge - for hundreds of miles . Petrol costs a fortune in this country , so those generators are out , and no way could they afford diesel generators . So forget bio fuel too .

I have to produce and sell - good units , the masses can easily copy !                                    I am connected to charities wanting to buy from me , to distribute throughout S.A.                A pension for me - and good for the poor !

It has to be SIMPLE and from common scrapyard stuff . Wind and solar panels are out as anything outside will be stolen , and sold back to the scrapyards .                                       This is South Africa !

To me - it can only be the OLD STYLE battery that was actually a fuel cell , where materials have to be replaced now and then . Preferably NOT using sulfuric acid , as there DEFINITELY will be stupid accidents . Same thing with a small steam engine .                                       One advantage is ; the size of the battery does not matter .                                                   

I know this is primitive , but believe me - outside the cities IS very primitive , and to just have BASIC elec will be like heaven to them .                                                                         

Any help - will be appreciated .

Bruce S

  • Global Moderator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3819
  • Country: us
  • USA
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2012, 04:07:08 PM »
OKAY! First of all remember I said I had in fact visited YOUR country so STOP reminding ME of that.
It gets RUDE!
NEXT;
I requested a list of stuff at the junk yard, I know for a fact your junk yard does not look anything like to closet one to my house.
NEXT, who said that since labor is cheap to free a car alternator would not work?
Just because it won't work as well for wind does NOT mean it can't be hooked up with a hand crank.
NO car needed, NO grid supply needed. just "stuff".
Heck even the Ethiopians I worked with understood this simple concept and most of them wore proudly their warrior scars .
NOW, telling us you have charities wanting to buy from you means anything WE help you with, you get a profit for it. This is very close to the edge for us here!
We help those who need help , normally as soon as I see "profit" coming into play I lock these threads.
Tread very carefully with  this.  >:(
I have a soft spot for people trying to help themselves!
 FOR profit, I do not, and nor do most of the other Moderators here.
Come back with my list I'll then begin to help--maybe--
Bruce S
   
You can educate out ignorance, you can work out of poverty, BUT you cannot fix "stupid".
author "Bruce S"

gizmo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 348
  • Country: au
    • The Back Shed
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2012, 04:24:05 PM »
Pedal power.

BillBlake

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Country: us
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2012, 04:37:12 PM »
Allen, You don't leave a whole lot of options except for the Bottom Line portable, defendable power generator of all time.
The Bicycle Generator.

Some old timers have forgotten way more about them than they ever needed to know. 

If you can tag team a couple of the Badhammers - a limited amount of DVD movies, charging your phones, minor Light,
other minor stuff, etc. are all possible for the determined with a jar of honey for calories. ;D

Years ago I bought a couple of 'Kiddie' Bike Trainers on ebay to go with the overpriced full size units I bought on ebay.
Figured if the day ever came, which I said would most likely not come for 40 years (or so),
that we all had to struggle for our survival - I wanted the Grandkids to be able to struggle as well.

Even figured out how to have some ice cold drinks by 'Banking the Bike Power' and running a mini freezer once a week.
Then using a 7 day ice chest. Ice cube makers ARE OUT. Has to be a mini freezer (and like 1 quart ice blocks).

One of the Kingpin families of Electrical Surplus in America (by the acre) had a 'Bikes for Africa' deal going a while back.
They had some little Army Surplus DC Motor / Generators that were packaged in EMP proof boxes.
One of Bill Gate's top guys saw one at a Radio Shack and told me to hold onto it AND the packaging.
They were fairly cheap. ($15 or something.)  Bought a small case of them but never needed to fool with them.

Axial flux is the hot deal for people with the money and patience.

Bill Blake

SparWeb

  • SuperHero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2798
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2012, 08:12:36 PM »
Hi Allen,
I doubt steam would be appropriate.  High pressures, high temperatures, kids playing with parts, procured from scrapyard, what could possibly go wrong?

Take a look at the Hugh Piggott projects.  They are SPECIFICALLY designed to be useful for the 3rd world.  In fact he has worked with rural electrification projects himself for years (India and Peru IIRC).  The blueprints for his generators contain detailed lists of parts, most of which are picked to be easy to find in most parts of the world (the magnets would be exceptions to this).  The axial-flux generators built by this method can be used for wind, hydro, and/or pedal power.

As a former tool-and-die maker, it sounds like you have been "urbanized" and know your way around the business of procuring all sorts of materials necessary for any technical project.  Getting your hands on a pack of ferrite magnet blocks shouldn't be difficult under these circumstances - but I could be wrong!  You should tell me:  Are these items available?????   Knowing what you can beg/borrow/steal (oops didn't say that)  will shed light on what you can built.

Having the community involved in building and setting up the generation system, as much as possible, will do wonders for the sustainability of the equipment.  Heaven knows we hear enough stories about "gifts" from the developped world, parachuted in on top of a village of farmers, which only works for a few months.  After one rainy season it quits, nobody knows how to fix it, and not long after it's being scavenged for parts.  Sounds like you know all about that process, and will be 100% involved.
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

allenbee

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: za
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2012, 04:24:25 PM »
Thank you all for the help so far , and sorry if I offended.
 I must tell you all – I only came on to this site as I couldn't talk to Dan Fink anymore , after all his horrific fire losses .
I was asking Dan which generator and battery to build, and which “other power” books to buy.
I'm trying to avoid a generator, and for simplicity (for a very simple people to copy) want an “instant power” battery , where you “recharge” with new (cheap and easy to get) metals ,  as they get eaten away .      Manual power is free !                                                               

This “hassle” is NOT a problem in this  3rd world part of South Africa .
Can this type of battery , with 96 or more 1/2v cells - power a 700w inverter ? Will 200 or more cells do it ? Size does not matter !!!

Common materials here are ; Copper wire , Lead , battery acid , Aluminum , old mag car rims , roof sheeting ,casings of motors for Zink , and chromed stuff .
In the supermarkets these are common ; All swimming pool acids and additives , bleach , Epson salts , lye , condies crystals etc .

I believe there's a concoction here ,that could have been introduced 30 years ago already – BUT WHO wants to waste time and money , on a people with little money ????
And so – the poor stay without electricity !

The best results I've got so far – is Aluminum and copper in battery acid . (Zink goes too fast) . But - Battery acid is too dangerous .

Will anybody help this “ripoff” artist please ?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 04:29:07 PM by allenbee »

BillBlake

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Country: us
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 05:17:23 PM »
Allen, This thread reminds me of being In Search of a Lost Chord. A lot of people have been scheming on your quest for decades. The old timers are not holding back a d-mn thing in
groups that are geared for what your talking about. Loose copper (and other metals) just laying around might not be that easy to grab. It's all been looked into.
I think your having fun with this thread but wonder where the fun actually originates from.

Bill Blake

birdhouse

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 914
  • Country: us
  • Portland, OR USA
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 05:40:35 PM »
first off, welcome aboard. 

Quote
Can this type of battery , with 96 or more 1/2v cells - power a 700w inverter ? Will 200 or more cells do it ?

batteries can be made from sticking two different metal into a lemon.  will it power a 700w inverter?  no.  i think if you made some homemade batteries out of clay ect. with acid, water, copper, lead, metal roofing, ect...  the bank would have to be the size of a a few football fields to watch a tiny tv for a few hours.  especially with the losses from an inverter.  then in the morning, you'd have to switch/replace all the metals to get a light for a few hours and a bit more tv. 

you need decent junk batteries and a way to recharge.  i don't think the ped gen is it either.  i'm imagining all these malnourished 10 year old boys pedaling their brains out to impress their mother, to then need more food, and then get sick ect. 

what about trying to get some cheap solar that can be hidden in the roof?  or even the teenagers bring the battery and panel up to a hidden charging spot and guard it during the day, and bring it all back for night use?? 

this is a hard thing to accomplish. 

you've stated:  no gas, no cars, solar and wind too expensive and stealable, and we think steam is probably too dangerous. 

what else is left? 

adam

niall2

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • Country: lt
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2012, 06:00:31 PM »
i dont get it  ?

quote

"I have to produce and sell - good units , the masses can easily copy !                                    I am connected to charities wanting to buy from me , to distribute throughout S.A.   A pension for me - and good for the poor !"

what do you want exactly ?.....a nice villa by the cape with some good bass fishing in later years ?

and whats all this pension business about .....

what charities are you working with ?.....i,m sure you can name them all here ......

i,d like to see the charity names if thats ok ... :)

ps...do the " poor " get a pension as well ?...just wondering
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 07:08:46 PM by niall2 »

bob g

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
  • 8.8kwatt idi diesel thermal conversion unit
    • microcogen.info
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2012, 09:00:21 PM »
in my opinion, and as unpopular as my opinions might be... here it is.

you are looking for the holy grail of RE, the home built battery capable of being built out of junk laying about and capable of doing real work.

that is very close to perpetual motion in reality.

don't you suppose that in this day and age of the internet, and every DIY'er on the planet working away on wind machines, water turbines, soldering together stings of cheap solar cells, gasification, slowspeed diesels, steam and everything else short of a bucket size nuke reactor, that there would be someone that has built such a battery and has actually published the results on the net?  and if there were one there would be a thousand such dudes all over the place replicating and improving on the process.

there is a reason that batteries are expensive, heavy, and toxic, and it isn't because of some secret technology, its all well known stuff for the most part over a century old... the reason everyone isn't doing it is the actual reality of building a useful battery is a difficult endeavor using accepted practice, let alone trying to do so with recycled scrap bits and pieces of varied quality.

in my opinion, forget reinventing the battery and skip directly to the generation of power.

the biggest bang for the buck is the car alternator, and building a gasifier to fuel a small engine is relatively easy to do (much easier than building a battery from clay pots and  scrap materials). you can certainly find a car alternator capable of a kilowatt, a small engine to power it with, and provide a buffer battery (from a used car, it doesn't have to be a very good battery) and attach an inverter.  building and fueling a gasifier to fuel an engine that does not have to run at a specific speed makes it much more doable too.

yes such a system could be stolen, but my bet is the village could secure this small amount of equipment easily, especially if it made useful power for them.

far easier to located sticks and twigs, buffalo dung, or other scraps to gasify than it would ever be to get a kid to peddle a bike generator. an arm full of sticks would make more power in such a system than a kid could muster pedaling in a week in my opinion. 

if you were a kid and were asked to do one of the following which would you do?

1. gather an arm load of sticks or buffalo chips, or

2. climb up on this bike and pedal your ass off for even an hour

(again, an arm load of sticks will produce more power than he, me or you could do in  a week pedaling a bike)

just avail yourself of the net, look into how folks make power living offgrid, look at how they started out when funds were either low or non existent. (who cares how the rich guys do it anyway) the net is full of small engine driven alternator plans and idea's.

if you can't source those parts in SA, then the villagers really have no need for TV anyway. if there is so little available to them now, having a TV will only piss them off and make them depressed.

sometimes ignorance truly is bliss,

(ignorance is not a bad thing, sometimes knowledge is much worse)

point being you might consider the law of unintended consequence, you might think you are doing a noble thing and later find out it makes life much more difficult for those you are trying to help.

probably already said more than i should have,

again not intending to piss off anyone, just another viewpoint that's all.

bob g
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
large frame automotive alternators for high output/high efficiency project X alternator for 24, 48 and higher voltages, and related cogen components.
www.microcogen.info and a SOMRAD member

bob g

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1116
  • 8.8kwatt idi diesel thermal conversion unit
    • microcogen.info
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2012, 09:25:39 PM »
i want to expand a bit for clarity

first of all i get very indignant when it comes to the term "human power"

most especially when  it is used in reference to 3rd world country populations.

the reason being, what gives us the right to burn fossil fuels and deny them the same use of such???

there are those on one side of the spectrum that are worried about the climate and pollution, and they just won't stand for promoting this behavior in developing countries.

lets think about this from a villagers viewpoint...

we bring him a pedal power generator, thinking we are doing a good thing... he thinks it is great too!  wow he now has ice, except he is used to warm milk and really has no need for ice... but it is cool and an interesting thing just the same...

next comes a radio and his kids get to learn about other things outside of their village, ok that might be good except now the kids learn of other places and want to go there... what happens to their eco/culture system that has been in place for eon's? 

but everything is still ok, we the supplier of the pedal machine are still seen as a noble thing if not completely a good thing.

then comes the TV...

now they get to see first world lifestyles, big car's, boat's, motorcycles, girls that are half naked, you name it they get access to it all!

how long do you think it will take for the average villager to put 2 plus 2 together and get 4?  about a newyork second!

he will say, wtf is this pedal thing for?  i wan't the car, the boat, the planes and  the girl with the big boobs!  wth gives you mr pedal machine man the right to expect me to pedal my ass off when all you need to do is plug into a wall or pull up to a gas pump?  i want that too!

and screw you and the horse you rode in on if you think i am happy about my lot in life, especially now that i understand that you expect me to remain primitive and pedal this damn thing so that you can balance your carbon footprint and keep some sort of control over something you can't control?

what gives you the right to control me?

so  what started as a noble thing has now turned full circle and now you have built an enemy, and he is pissed off.

think about it, turn the tables, how would you feel?

this is like being a junior in highschool, getting ready to go pickup your date for prom, and arriving at the event with her straddle the handlebars of your bicycle... and seeing all the other boys arriving with their dates in ferrari's. 

if you were that junior boy, do you suppose you would be happy about the gift of that shiney new bike?  oh yes, "you must be happy with this, because we are trying to limit carbon emissions" or some other bullcrap... it really doesn't matter if the rational makes sense or not, he is never going to hear it much less understand it.

i don't know if that makes sense or not, but history is replete with examples of do gooder's being beheaded and put in the stew pot.

even if it doesn't end that way, there is still a moral question.

what friggin right do we or anyone have to push this evil "human power" bullshit on anyone.

the more i think about it, the more i want no part of it.

bob g
research and development of a S195 changfa based trigenerator, modified
large frame automotive alternators for high output/high efficiency project X alternator for 24, 48 and higher voltages, and related cogen components.
www.microcogen.info and a SOMRAD member

windy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
Re: Simple large homemade battery .
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2012, 10:38:34 PM »
allenbee,

 I came across this article a few years ago. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/9641711/Free-Energy-From-The-Earth
 I thought about giving it a try but never did. It is an interesting idea though.
 Take a look!

windy