ghurd controller questions

[gww]

Can a dummy, with no understanding of the parts used, build this with the instuctions?

If it is built 12v can it be converted to the 24v version easly.

In the optional items, which would I have to order to garentee proper function.

When programing it do I need to the varible voltage supply kit. (can I do the samething hooking it to a running car?)

After its built what amps will it handle.

Is it a single stage controller. (charging or diverting one or the other) Is my morningstar 60 single or three stage? comparison of how the two work.

Can it ever be built as a 48v controller.

off subject;  I have a outback mx60 controller.  If the grid went down "stoping selling" would the mx 60 divertion load work for windturbines wired strait to the bateries as long as I shut the solar down and didnt go over 60 amps with the divertion load?

What I want to accomplish is;

I already built a 12 volt turbine and have a leason motor that if direct drive will be a twelve volt.  Will probly charge bateries for fishing,  fourwheelers and lawnmowers.  I have a 48v outback system and 4 more small 48v turbines and some solar.  Trying to put it toghether with as few controllers as posible.  Currently using the morningstar on 12v system.  48v system not hooked up yet.

Any answers or comments will be a apreciated.
Thank you
   gww

[independent]

no

[gww]

Independent
short and sweet. Any advice to get me where I got to go?
Thanks
gww

[opo]

It was the first circuit I did put toghether. Yes, it can be modified later for 24v.

[gww]

opo
so there is hope.  how many heat sinks and how did you program and what do I for sure need to order?  also how many amps will it handle.  And thanks for the responce you have given me.
thanks

[opo]

Each Z44 needs a heatsink. Each Z44 can handle about 5 amps when dumping, The kit comes with two (I think) Z44, I ordered an extra one, I'm glad I did. So my controller may dump 15*12 or so Watts. You can add more mofsets (Z44's) as needed. I suggest you talk to Ghurd directly on this one.

There is no need to program it. All you need to do is to adjust a variable resistor to set the dump voltage. To set it I used a not so reliable 14.5ish charger, in my case it worked great, Other people used a car battery with the car running, as it has the correct voltage to set as a dump point.

Cheers,

Octavio

[opo]

I think I read once that someone around here did  trick it for 48V.

[independent]

With a fancy fet I was able to safely dump 10A, but just reading the OP sounded a bit scary.

I didnt spend too long reading this so apologies if I get this wrong but if you have grid tie, you potentially have lethal voltage levels to deal with and legal implications with any system grid connected in your locality. Grounding is the first major potential problem that springs to mind.

[gww]

Octavio
Thanks.  If I understand correctlly,  I order 2- z44s and 4 heat sinks and the kitt If I dont screw up in assembly, I will have a twenty amp controller. Do I need to order anything else to make it work.  I see ghurd is on this site.  would I have good luck contacting him from the kit website? 
thanks again


Independent

I dont even know what a fet is.  I made some solar and now can solder so if I got the right parts I might get it together.  I am going to follow directions when hooking up the outback system.  The voltage danger might be dampered a little as it is a 48 v system. No doubt that I dont understand grounding at all.  The outback inverter itself seems to be taken care of when hooking to main panel. Componants to the outback I will still have to figure out.  wish me luck.  Thanks for pointing it out.
gww

[opo]

Octavio
Thanks.  If I understand correctlly,  I order 2- z44s and 4 heat sinks and the kitt If I dont screw up in assembly, I will have a twenty amp controller. Do I need to order anything else to make it work.  I see ghurd is on this site.  would I have good luck contacting him from the kit website? 
thanks again

Each Z44 must be attached to a set of resistors (dump load), so don't forget that too. Glenn is a cool guy.

[DamonHD]

Glenn is a cool guy.

Seconded and then some.

Rgds

Damon

[gww]

opo-damon
My name is glenn too.  Maby the coolness will rub off on me.  On my morning star controller I am using an AC rated hot water element derated for dc per morningstar instructions.  Are you stating that I must use mutiple resitors with each mofset and cant use just one dump resiter.  think thats what you are saying.  thank you

[DamonHD]

IMHO...

There is no problem with having exactly one dump resistor per FET providing that it has the correct rating (R, resistance in ohms) so as not to overload the FET (draw too much current) and a large enough correct wattage/power to cope with the heat that it will be generating (V^2/R).

But sharing load resistors between multiple FETs is likely a less good idea, since the load may not get shared equally and then FETs may blow up sacrificially.

Rgds

Damon

[gww]

damon
Thank you
So to build this thing properly for say almost 500w divertion load I would need to buy 5 mofsets plus two that come with kit total of seven.  7 heatsinks.  Enough resistors for 70w per mofset for 5 amp divertion each.  Is this correct?

I have a hugh pigott 6 coil 8 mag double rotor build neos insted of ferrit mag. I am pretty sure I wont get 200w out of it ever.  Also a leson motor 10amp 120v 1750 rpm motor that gives 1v per 20 rpm.  Im pretty sure this will never beat 200w.  If I am correct about the build of the charge controller this would probly protect my batteries right?
thanks

[DamonHD]

Agh!  Don't make me count on my fingers and toes on a Sunday!  I'm 3/4s asleep somehow right now.  B^>

500W is more than 7 x 70W for a start, so without even paying attention to your FET ratings, and given that you should probably aim a little over rather than under I would round your numbers up a little, to (say) 75W per FET.

Note an additional trickiness is that you will not be dumping at your nominal voltage (12V) but some larger value where the batteries are fully charged maybe between 14V and 15V depending on various details.  So yes, at 15V then 5A implies 75W, so you need to choose a resistance to match, in this case 3 ohms, for each FET.  And even at 12V you could dump ~340W total, so still enough elbow room.

As long as your FET is rated at (decently) over 5A and has enough heatsink then to a first approximation I think that is right.

But all this from a guy who does solar and barely uses dump loads.

Just wait until someone verifies or corrects my arithmetic!  B^>

Rgds

Damon

[gww]

thank you damon
gww

[birdhouse]

gww-
what type of batteries is the ghurd controller being connected to?  if flooded lead acid (FLA), then it's not a horrible thing if your mill puts out a bit more juice than your dump can handle, for short durations.  the voltage will rise, and it will be a bit like an unintended equalize charge.  just make sure you keep an eye on your battery water levels, as equalize can boil off a bit of water! 

adam

[gww]

adam
thank you
trolling motor, lawn mower, car batteries, from things that sit around alot.  lead acid.  Im going to have a 48v system but these were the first tubines I built (12v) and I hate not to use them. I set some solar and two car batteries along a creek at my old mans place for radio and lights for camping and maby someday I will add these turbines there.  anyway that helps though the most use the batteries see will be voltage drop from natural loss, not usage.
thanks
gww

[birdhouse]

gww-
even though they may have free or cheap, keep those batteries charged.  if the voltage gets low, sulfation will set in and cause an early death!

adam

[gww]

adam
believe me I currently have lived in indiana for over two years and still have two cars, fourwheeler, three riding mowers and trolling motor battery in missouri.  I have replaced several batteries over the last two years.  everytime I go on vacation. The two at the creek have 180w solar panels on them so ok.  Now the turbine is on some of the others but it is a very low tower and not sure Im getting enough wind to help.  rushed job.  I dont want to ruin them, too high charge or too low.  Right now using the morning star cc but believe I will need it when I set up the outback system ergo the need to build the ghurd cc.  Thank you for your help
              gww

[independent]

if I am reading this correctly the grounding problem is from the grid that is connected to your system. Although it sounds like you have a few systems..

[gww]

Independent
Currently I am just trying to figure out how to have enough charge controllers to run two systems with out having too many.  When I hook up the outback inverters, charge contollers, batteries, solar and 48v turbines I am sure I will have to learn more about grounding.  currently just trying to minimalize the components and still use all my turbines. 
thanks
gww

[gww]

I have sent an e-mail from the kit website offering to buy enough stuff to hopfully build a decent controller and will see how it goes.  Went with a total of 6 z44s as they are apparently good for 6 amps each and 4 of the resistors he sells are 5.6 amps together.  Wish me luck.  Also if anyone wants to jump in with more advice or answers to the other questions I posed above please do so.
Thanks to all that have helped so for.

                  gww

[ghurd]

Thanks everybody.

I have been 'busy with life stuff'.
I am keeping up with emails, but the volume of posts on this site are just a little too much for me to handle at the moment.
Be Advised: My email sometimes does not put it in my inbox as quick as expected.  It tends (but not always) be from outside the US emails.  UK seems the most common.  An email from a guy in Canada showed up 4 MONTHS later!  But my inbox puts it way back in the middle of 20,000 old emails.
If you do not get a reply in 48 hours, try again.


I think most of it has been covered with posts and emails, but some of you guys could let me know when something like this comes up!


IF there is a future plan to convert a 12V ghurd controller version to 24V, I need to know when you order the kit.
The 24V parts Do NOT come standard with the 12V kit.

There are 48V versions out there running fine.  It takes different power fets.  And a whole extra pack of parts, some of which are not, or may not end up, on the circuit board.
One 48V version had a few issues with smoked fets, and I am recommending Gate resistors on each fet Gate in 48V systems now (they are free).
At least one 48V GTI version is being used to trigger a shorting shutdown of the turbine, with manual reset.

When spelled correctly, it is "Glen".
G-

[gww]

G
I think they should take away you super hero extra plus plus status untill you learn to spell your own name
thanks
Glenn

[David HK]

These photographs may be useful.

The first shows a Ghurd pin-through=the-hole circuit. There are two:- the left one controls the dump load which switches the four FET's - top left; The right hand circuit controls the Low Volt disconnect which which switches two FET's to power various 12 volt appliances in my home.

The second photograph shows my dump load which consists of two 1 Ohm resistors. Only one is connected. The box was under construction at the time the photograph was taken.

The last photograph shows my own SMD version of Ghurd's circuits. The right hand pair are pin-through-the-hole and the left pair are the SMD versions.

David in HK

[gww]

David hk
They say a picture is worth a thousand words.  I can tell I'm going to need about ten thousand words to muddle through this project.  Starting with what does "SMD" mean.  Thank you very much for the post.  Them photos might be usefull. How much does your 1 ohm resitor divert in watts?  really nice.
thanks
gww

[David HK]

Hello,

SMD means surface mount device (also can be written as SMT - surface mount technology) very common these days.

To study the resistors I use which burn off excess power as heat please go to this web site and study-

 http://www.grfehr.com/PDF/POHM/Wirewound.pdf

Then you will begin to learn.

I have been through what your going through.

David in HK

[gww]

David
The link has messed up more of my pre-conceved notions.  I thought that measuring resistance with ohms measuments was more consistent.  Was not expecting .7 ohms to devert more watts then one ohm.  Makes using cut up oven elements or such much harder to figure. ( if I were even to try that.)  It seems that you are using a couple z44's to divert to one big resistor. If so how is that working.  Thank you for the post
gww

[David HK]

If so how is that working - Excellent!. Fine. Best thing since sliced bread.

Ghurd's kit is wonderful. Trust him.

Try searching for more threads on oven elements. They are here on this website.

David in HK

[gww]

David
I have ordered the kit and spoken several times with Glen, it must be a labor of love for him and not about money as he has spent more time back and forth on emails then the kit I ordered cost. (unless of coures he can live on $0.50 an hour.  I didn't think he lived in china though.)  I have never had any luck with the search engine on this site so I'm just reading all the post.  I'm on about page 50 of the wind forum.  I'm such a newbee that I don't understand most of what is said but I'm still learning a little.  I have been up down and around this and several sites and will probly never be done untill dead.  The reason I ask about the single resistor on multiple z44's is because of damons post above.  I'm glad its working out for you and really thank you for your responces.
gww
PS I really apretiated damons responsess. I am glad there is more then one way to skin a cat.  leaves a little latitude for the unlearned.