Author Topic: New project  (Read 9259 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
New project
« on: March 22, 2014, 07:18:36 AM »
Hi everyone. I'm new here and thought I should share some photos of my project. I'll try and upload them before I write too much.

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2014, 07:35:07 AM »
I've been researching the project for a couple of years now and finally bit the bullet and ordered a couple of 4.5 kw turbines designed to operate over a 2.7m head. We get most of our flow in winter so I figure I'll shut one down over summer.

I am doing all the work myself to try and keep costs down. My wife is a little upset that I bought the digger but I figure I can sell it when I'm done and it is great to not be renting and have it on site permanently.

The turbines have arrived but unfortunately I am still many months away from finishing the penstock. Especially as I had to stop construction for a few months over winter. It would have been too much of a fight with constant flooding and deep mud.

I haven't got a final plan yet as to how I will connect to the house but I don't plan on selling to the grid. I think the output will pretty closely match our consumption (running two houses). Originally I was planning on just running heating elements off it. We have an electric boiler to heat the house which can take the entire load itself, 2 large hot water cylinders, several electric radiators oven stove etc. But now I'm thinking it would be nice to run everything off it and use the grid as a top up if and when necessary. A bit more research is required.

If you have any questions, comments or especially suggestions please go ahead.

Cheers

hiker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1531
  • BIG DOG
Re: New project
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2014, 10:51:57 AM »
welcome aboard.......
looks like the start of a great project..best of luck..
WILD in ALASKA

thirteen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 980
  • Country: us
  • Single going totally off grid 1,1, 2013
Re: New project
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2014, 08:40:10 PM »
It sure looks like a fun project. Best of luck with it. 13
MntMnROY 13

sean_ork

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 160
Re: New project
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2014, 05:48:10 AM »
no man should ever feel guilty for buying a digger

MaryAlana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1200
Re: New project
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2014, 03:35:27 PM »
This is a case where grid tie really would make sense. Automatic switching on/off grid, can still have backup batteries with the right inverter...

hydrosun

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
Re: New project
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2014, 11:13:13 PM »
A grid intertie would give maximum flexibility with storing surplus power when not needed and using it when needed. But many hydro systems don't qualify for net metering. So you only get wholsale price for the production of powerand purchace power at retail rates. And it opens up  all kinds of permitting and water rights questions. A grid backup setup is simpler if most of the loads can be run directly off the hydro. And the generator doesn't have to sync with the grid.
Chris

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2015, 03:05:09 PM »
Big changes at work meant the project was on hold for the best part of the last year but back at it now. Hoping to finish by next winter.

Chris, your comment is exactly where I'm at. Too many negative points selling back and not worth it financially with what they would pay so I'm just planning on powering the house and using the grid to back up very occasionally when output is down. I haven't got as far as planning how the wires will connect to the house. Gen output matches our supply from the grid (400V 3 phase) so should not be too difficult to work something out. I'm thinking maybe I should have gone with DC gens fed to a small battery bank and an inverter but the Gens are here so thats that.

Pics to follow.

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2015, 03:14:28 PM »
How will I build the internal boxing???

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2015, 03:18:55 PM »
My father in law comes to help with the concrete pour.

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2015, 03:26:47 PM »
A few months later and the out law is back just in time for the next concrete pour.

thirteen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 980
  • Country: us
  • Single going totally off grid 1,1, 2013
Re: New project
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2015, 10:56:08 PM »
What was done for the fish in the creek and what did you put in for the protection so fish will not go threw your machinery? Just asking. 13
MntMnROY 13

clockmanFRA

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 480
  • Country: fr
    • Echorenovate
Re: New project
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2015, 11:06:16 PM »
Very interesting.

I would love to do something similar here with our small river, 500gals/second, unfortunately here in Normandy, France, using water that passes through our land is very difficult to get the necessary regulatory permissions.

And the locals around here play the game of reporting everybody else if they see someone else is getting some free that they aren't getting, very French.

If the water starts/springs on our land then we can do as we want. We do have a small spring that feeds our large ponds, but its only 1gal/second.  :'(

Keep the photo's coming.
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.

3off Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (9 years).  .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (5 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled Used/SH GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with AC Coupling to the OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries.

clockmanFRA

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 480
  • Country: fr
    • Echorenovate
Re: New project
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2015, 11:36:19 PM »
Regards Electricty Generation in France.

We have 5kW PV on trackers, 2.5kW PV static array, 3 off HughP's 3.7m (12 footers) 4.5kW, Diameter Wind Turbines, all officially approved and all submitted to the Regional authorities etc, no costs, but just a few drawings and importantly a block plan about 320 to 1 scale of your installation site.
 
However, we still get Sate/Government Utilities Officials, ERDF & EDF employees, telling us that to produce Electricity without giving it to the France, (its a Republic you see, everything is done for the good of the people and the nation  ::) is against the law and using it is illegal...........

Mrs CM is very French and has found this bit of relevant French legal speak/Laws that encourages electricity generation & Self Consumption,......
 Code de l'urbanisme Article L111-6-2............Modifié par LOI n°2014-366 du 24 mars 2014 - art. 158 (V)

so we just refer the dum-asses to it.

Keep the photo's coming blueskies.


If it helps, here below is the English goggle Translation.

Planning Code Article L111-6-2

Edited by ION 2014-366 of March 24, 2014 - s. 158 (V)

Notwithstanding the rules for the appearance of local development plans buildings, land use plans, area development plans and subdivision regulations, building permits or develop or decision taken on a prior declaration can object to the use of renewable materials or materials or construction methods to avoid the emission of greenhouse gases, the installation of devices favoring the retention of rainwater or renewable energy to meet the needs of domestic consumption of the occupants of the building or part of the building concerned. The list of devices, construction methods and materials involved is fixed by regulation. This paragraph does not preclude the building permit or develop or decision on a prior declaration contains requirements intended to ensure the proper integration of the architectural project in the existing building and the surrounding environment.

The first paragraph is not applicable in a conservation area in a protection zone of the architectural, urban and landscape established pursuant to Article L. 642-1 of the heritage code, in the scope of protection of a building classified or listed as historical monuments defined by Article L. 621-30 of the Code, in a listed site or classified pursuant to Articles L. 341-1 and L. 341-2 of the Environment Code , within the heart of a national park delimited pursuant to Article L. 331-2 of the Code, or to work on a listed building or registered as historical monuments or standing against a listed building, or a building protected under 2 ° of III of Article L. 123-1-5 of the Code.

It is also not applicable in delimited areas, after consultation with the architect of buildings in France, by the municipal council or governing body of the public institution competent intercommunal cooperation in local plan urban planning, motivated by the protection of built or not built heritage, landscapes and monumental and urban perspectives. The opinion of the Architect of the Buildings of France is deemed favorable if it is not made in writing within two months after the transmission of the scope of the project by the mayor or the president of the public institution for cooperation competent in the field of inter-local plan. The deliberation project is available to the public for its comments for a period of one month before the meeting of the council or of the governing body of the public institution.

As of the publication of the law n ° 2010-788 of 12 July 2010 on the national commitment to the environment, any new rules which, within a perimeter referred to in the previous two paragraphs, prohibit or restrict the Installation of the devices listed in the first paragraph is given special justification.

The first paragraph shall apply six months after the publication of the Act.

Links related to this article

Quote:
ION 2010-788 of 12 July 2010
Town Planning Code - s. L123-1-5
Environmental Code - s. L331-2
Environmental Code - s. L341-1
Code of heritage - art. L621-30
Code of heritage - art. L642-1

 Cited by:
Town Planning Code - s. 111-50-1 * R (V)
Town Planning Code - s. R * 123-13 (VD)
Town Planning Code - s. R111-50 (V)

Corrected by: ACT of 24 March 2014, v. init.
 
 
 
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.

3off Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (9 years).  .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (5 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled Used/SH GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with AC Coupling to the OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries.

clockmanFRA

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 480
  • Country: fr
    • Echorenovate
Re: New project
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2015, 11:47:05 PM »
It roughly says....

No one can object to your generation of electricity and self consumption installations, as long as you satisfy the appropriate regulations, example, Wind turbines must not be more than 12m, (40ft) high, (any higher then you need full planning permission).
And no one, local councils etc, can object to your installations, as long as your building is not listed, ie a National historic building, or your site is in a National listed/Historic area.
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.

3off Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (9 years).  .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (5 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled Used/SH GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with AC Coupling to the OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries.

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2015, 04:18:54 AM »
By chance we are in France. Planning permission was easy as we have one point of contact (the mayor). I sketched my plan on the back of a napkin over a few beers with an architect mate and he later drew up a quick set of plans which I submitted. A month or two later they had been approved by the 300 different organisations required. Our house is an old water mill and we have Napoleonic water rights. Whatever that means it probably helped with the approval.

We only take a fraction of the water available so fish movement is not affected in the natural waterfall, I'll just have some grills to stop fish and debris entering the turbine.

Thanks for the reference to the planning code article. It will no doubt come in useful once I'm producing and start getting visits from the caring state.

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2017, 01:09:28 PM »
I guess it's about time for an update.

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2017, 01:10:47 PM »
A few more

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2017, 01:12:49 PM »
...and we have power.

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2017, 01:17:41 PM »
The power of water. Great when we harness it but be careful. The day after first producing power we went on holiday. While we were away there was a flood and my dirt embankment wasn't quite high enough. Oh s@#$.

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2017, 01:24:16 PM »
I had no idea how I was going to support the race that had erroded completely underneath but several months of getting dirty and pushing concrete in from all angles and also though a few holes it was supported well enough. Back fill for the second time, a little higher this time and she has now been running and producing nicely since November. Even with the driest and one of the coldest winters in 20 years the house has been toasty warm running off the turbines.

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2017, 01:38:42 PM »
And finally a structure so I can take the tarp off.

Blueskies

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: fr
Re: New project
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2017, 02:02:40 PM »
I have to say it has been a love-hate relationship. It has taken too much of my time for too long and  "The catastrophe" was soo upsetting. I had no idea when I started how big of a project it was. Still quite a lot to do but now that she's generating the pressure is off.

The next step is to sort out how to better connect to the house. At the moment it is connected directly to the underfloor heating, hot water, oven and some radiators. The oven is a bit different in that it is on all the time but runs off a normal 13 amp socket so can not draw too much at any one time. Of course, this suits our production which is 24/7 but not a huge max. Google Everhot if you're interested.

I'm thinking 3 Powersine Combi inverter/chargers, one per phase, and a small battery bank. It will be a bit too expensive but will keep things simple and hopefully robust so probably worth it in the end. I would also have a separate battery charger always connected to the grid that would come on if battery voltage dropped below a certain level and would have some kind of system auto or manual to switch the inverter chargers to the grid if something happened to the turbine production. Any thoughts/experience/advice here is much appreciated. Most of what I've done has been, learn by mistake and I have made some goodies (also my good friend Google has been invaluable) but I don't want to fork out a bunch of cash to find it is not the correct solution.

oztules

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1477
  • Country: aq
  • Village idiot
Re: New project
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2017, 03:09:26 PM »
Wow....... just Wow :)


...........oztules
Flinders Island Australia

MattM

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 422
Re: New project
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2017, 05:37:50 AM »
Thank you for sharing!

tanner0441

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 985
  • Country: wales
Re: New project
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2017, 07:00:14 AM »
Hi

I have been on this site for a number of years I have read many articles, but this without a doubt is one of the best, documented account. Even the near disaster.  What makes it more impressive is your doing it virtually alone.

Well done and I look forward to what you learn in the next few months when you have a few figures.

As for the digger..... Every boy of what ever age as long as he can climb into the cab should have one. Plus a range of buckets, attachments, chains, D links, and straps....


Brian



SparWeb

  • Global Moderator
  • SuperHero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3329
  • Country: ca
    • Wind Turbine Project Field Notes
Re: New project
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2017, 12:57:01 PM »
I am thoroughly impressed!

But, should we expect anything less from a man with "Napoleonic water rights"?   8)
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024