Author Topic: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!  (Read 7120 times)

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frackers

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The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« on: July 22, 2014, 06:23:21 PM »
Google are offering $1,000,000 prize for an inverter that can hit at least 50w per cubic inch.

https://www.littleboxchallenge.com/

Should be interesting...
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DanG

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2014, 01:06:46 AM »
Possible if your microwave is the size of a sugar cube, washer and drier not larger than a matchbox...

DamonHD

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2014, 01:33:18 AM »
Yes, very interesting.

Quite a decent set of engineering rules to get accepted.

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joestue

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My wife says I'm not just a different colored rubik's cube, i am a rubik's knot in a cage.

mettleramiel

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2014, 06:10:21 PM »
I would think that you could sell the plans or demand a royalty for much more than $1,000,000. Seems like a pretty short sighted plan to win this contest.

Mary B

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2014, 06:23:26 PM »
Designer keeps the rights to the design. And current technology isn't that far off from it already. My KW inverter is in a 31cu inch box, much of it open space.

dnix71

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2014, 12:19:53 PM »
How small can you go before there isn't enough surface area to dissipate heat? That seems to me to be the real limit on downsizing. It's not like computers where you can use lower voltage devices to reduce internal heat.

Instead of a cube you might need to make something flat and very thin to avoid overheating, like car battery chargers used to do with the old-style diode plates.

Mary B

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2014, 05:10:28 PM »
there are kilowatt capable FETs on the market now, very small package.

boB

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2014, 10:53:36 PM »
there are kilowatt capable FETs on the market now, very small package.

Which ones in particular ?  I'm interested in what you're thinking about...
boB

joestue

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2014, 01:32:25 PM »
that depends on how well you heatsink them.

these are 1.34 each for 10 of them at mouser
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/149/FQI13N50C-348305.pdf

these are 5.86$ each  but electrically they are equal to 4 of those^ ones
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/205/DS100311A%28IXFH-FT-FQ60N50P3%29-314222.pdf
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Mary B

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2014, 05:36:19 PM »
Ones I am most familiar with are being used as ham radio amplifiers but the same cooling is needed. This guy has a good setup to cool high power fets. The white rectangle just left of center is a 1kw mosfet RF amplifier. Fets are mounted on a copper heat spreader that is machined very flat on both sides. Circuit board ground plane is attached to it with all components surface mounted on the other side. Ground vias are plated through to the ground side. The heat spreader is critical at these power levels, just plopping them on an aluminum heatsink is not enough.



Heat sink is attached to the bottom of the case with 4 fans forcing air through



http://www.w6pql.com/1_kw_2m_ldmos_amplifier.htm

boB

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2014, 01:59:49 AM »
I love RF power amplifiers !   And especially some of the RF parts like the NXP BLF578XR  used in that W6LQP amp.

boB
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Mary B

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2014, 02:22:40 AM »
I am collecting parts to build one of them. The FET is the expensive bit...

boB

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2014, 03:02:10 PM »
I am collecting parts to build one of them. The FET is the expensive bit...

Hey, they're only $300 each !

I think I would probably build a tube linear amp.  They're a bit more forgiving in case something goes wrong.

DamonHD

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2014, 03:29:58 PM »
The thought of linear, kW and FET all together makes me think of rather hot magic smoke escaping, but I guess life's like that for you analog[ue] people!  B^|>

Rgds

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Mary B

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2014, 05:14:14 PM »
I don't have the specs in front of me but I saw  a test jig of that fet transmitting at full power into an open antenna port, also one into a dead short. Plus there are easy to build protection circuits that can protect them.

And I am staying away from high voltage, I do not like how dangerous it is especially as I get older and a bit more forgetful. I short a 50 volt 30 amp switch mode supply and it sparks and shuts down, short 2kv at 1 amp and you get fireworks. Plus high voltage fuses have become unobtainium at a reasonable price as have high voltage transformers.

I am collecting parts to build one of them. The FET is the expensive bit...

Hey, they're only $300 each !

I think I would probably build a tube linear amp.  They're a bit more forgiving in case something goes wrong.

cardamon

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2014, 11:50:02 PM »
I think this is silly.  Is there some important application that has great need for a very small inverter????  The size of inverters is a significant problem?  Seems to me to be quite low on the list of
"wants" for power electronics, remote/portable power, and energy storage.  Who cares?

Bruce S

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2014, 10:27:43 AM »
I think this is silly.  Is there some important application that has great need for a very small inverter????  The size of inverters is a significant problem?  Seems to me to be quite low on the list of
"wants" for power electronics, remote/portable power, and energy storage.  Who cares?
Not really silly if you get into the idea of the 50 watts per cubic inch they are requiring, and how much heat will need to be dissipated .
 
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cardamon

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Re: The Little Box Challenge could shake things up!!
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2014, 08:43:16 PM »
Quote
Not really silly if you get into the idea of the 50 watts per cubic inch they are requiring, and how much heat will need to be dissipated .

Ok.....yeah agreed its a challenge.....It is also a challenge to make a pumpkin cannon that can throw a pumpkin a mile in the air, does that make it not silly? ;) I am still waiting to hear what application this would have that would  revolutionize something.