Author Topic: magnet piston engine  (Read 40160 times)

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dbcollen

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #99 on: October 18, 2014, 11:53:07 PM »
Most of us knew long ago...........

Frank S

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #100 on: October 19, 2014, 12:57:33 AM »
Yep what you are thinking of as weights in a constant state of fall due to gravity we see as nothing more than a flywheel powered by a small motor and some gears on a wobble shaft
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GoVertical

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #101 on: October 20, 2014, 07:13:29 AM »

I did a simple test today. I took all the weights off and started the motor. The tilt plate just moved up and down and did not rotate. The output shaft is definitely powered by the weights falling toward the the center of gravity. No weights on the tilt plate, no rotation at the output shaft.

I still have to fabricate a few more parts to connect the PMA. It should be a few more days.
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gizmo

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #102 on: October 20, 2014, 06:29:57 PM »
No it just means with the weights in place, there is enough pressure on the coupling to create enough friction to pass some power through and drive the bottom weight around. The only test to see if its actually working it to draw power off the bottom and see if you can get more power out than you are putting in.

Glenn

joestue

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #103 on: October 21, 2014, 03:59:09 AM »
The only test to see if its actually working it to draw power off the bottom and see if you can get more power out than you are putting in.
:o ::)
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Bruce S

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #104 on: October 21, 2014, 09:44:16 AM »
No it just means with the weights in place, there is enough pressure on the coupling to create enough friction to pass some power through and drive the bottom weight around. The only test to see if its actually working it to draw power off the bottom and see if you can get more power out than you are putting in.

Glenn
UMM NO! that would mean it's OU!
He has stated more than once he's NOT trying to post OU crap.
His machining abilities are top notch and his patience with people trying to say he's trying to pass off an OU machine is much better than mine  >:( .
The guy ain't stupid!!

Keep this UP and it'll be those doing this, that I'll be forced to put on notice.



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dbcollen

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #105 on: October 21, 2014, 11:02:58 AM »
The guy ain't stupid!!

But it seems the Mods must be if they can't see he is trying to build an OU machine. This forum is losing credibility by letting this be posted. He posts links to OU machines and says he can get more power out than he puts in, then you guys believe him when he says it is not OU...... Disappointing.

dbcollen

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #106 on: October 21, 2014, 11:17:48 AM »
I still say it is not OU because it will never generate more power than the output shaft can provide.

If you think it will generate more power than you are putting in with the windshield wiper motor, then that IS OU

GoVertical

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #107 on: October 21, 2014, 02:52:57 PM »
Hi, the real input is the 60 pound weight that is constantly falling toward the moving center of gravity. It sounds like word game but it is not. The original Skinner design is so different it is real hard to see what is going on.

Most believe the input is the 15 watt motor. I believe the real input to be the 60 pound falling weight.

I should be able to test in few days and that will end the confusion.
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Bruce S

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #108 on: October 21, 2014, 04:51:24 PM »
The guy ain't stupid!!

But it seems the Mods must be if they can't see he is trying to build an OU machine.
In the past this statement alone would have YOU in a read only mode  >:(.
I'm gonna let it go; mainly because I know how dedicated you and the rest of us are at keeping OU crap-Ola off this website.
Once the data is in we shall see.
If there is even a hint of OU; subliminal or down right math based BS I'll nuke the entire post into vapor , then put GV into read only long enough for him to complete a full remedial math course starting at K-12. 

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Bruce S

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #109 on: October 21, 2014, 04:55:23 PM »
Hi, the real input is the 60 pound weight that is constantly falling toward the moving center of gravity. It sounds like word game but it is not.

Most believe the input is the 15 watt motor. I believe the real input to be the 60 pound falling weight.

I should be able to test in few days and that will end the confusion.
GoVertical ;
This part is in fact OU BS!! there cannot be a constantly falling without a reset of some type.

I could tell it is BS then had a physics professor read it and was told the same thing.

Show , even with a penciled picture what you mean.
QUICKLY!! otherwise this entire thread is bye-bye  >:( >:( >:(
 
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JW

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #110 on: October 21, 2014, 07:55:29 PM »
Report from Moderator-
The reporter has made the following comment:
I know its OU, your know its OU, but if we dont give GoVertical a chance to post his
results, then no one learns anything! We need to give Go-Vert a chance to post his
results, or the ignorant will remain ignorant.


gizmo

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #111 on: October 21, 2014, 09:15:40 PM »
Thanks for bringing the thread back up whoever did it.

Like I said to the mod, "I know its OU, your know its OU, but if we dont give GoVertical a chance to post his
results, then no one learns anything!"

I say that because...

1. I know this device wont work, because if it did it would brake several laws of physics. A few pages back I also bet my testicles on it not working.
2. I believe its important for others who believe it may work, to see someone go though the process of building the device, and document the results.

Number 2 is important. Go-Vertical has shared lots of pictures and videos, and talked about why he thinks it will work. Its a well constructed and documented build. I believe Go-Vertical will honestly post the results of his tests and eventually come to the conclusion himself the device wont work.

The whole thread then becomes an important lesson to anyone else thinking along the same lines of building such a device.

That's my thinking. Too many times we see youtube videos and blogs of someone trying to build a similar device, only to have no result. Eventually they give up, realise they cant make it work, but never post the results. I believe Go-Vertical wont do that, I believe he will be honest and come to the conclusion many of us know he will find.

That's why I say if this thread is killed, no one will learn anything. It would just be another "What happened, did it work or not?"

Glenn

gww

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #112 on: October 21, 2014, 11:54:47 PM »
My vote,
I believe it is bull hoky.  I also believe govertical was the very first person to respond to my very first post on this site in what was a helpfull maner.  I believe he may not walk the beaten path but has posted his failures at times with his mppt in the past.  I believe he will in due course post failures in the future. 
I am with you bruce whatever you decide but am not offended if you decide to take this a little further and see if there is any dishounestly in any results that finaly get posted.  Govertical, if you are allowed to continue, get it done and do it honestly.
Thanks
gww

Bruce S

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #113 on: October 22, 2014, 02:48:07 PM »
gww;
Thanks!
Full disclosure, I moved this thread (against my better judgement) to the quarantine section and I was then overruled and  it was moved back here.

I agree whole hardheartedly with gizmo about the need for seeing this to it's conclusion.
HOWEVER , once a fellow poster went down the path of calling us MODs (me in particular  >:( ) stupid, I felt it time to end this post.
In the past; we have had some real bozos try to post OU crap, and they were summarily removed and or even banned.
I too have seen GV's stuff , and I'll state this again, he's not stupid. He might be ignorant of "stuff" but, we are all in one thing or another.
Cheers
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Mary B

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #114 on: October 22, 2014, 05:05:28 PM »
It takes energy to move that weight back up gravity, more than you get from it falling. To claim otherwise is OU

dbcollen

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Re: Posting guidelines
« Reply #115 on: October 22, 2014, 05:49:18 PM »
Homebrewed Electricity -- This section is for anything related to producing your own electricity, with the exception of free energy/overunity/perpetual motion. These topics are forbidden on this board because we think it's a waste of time and has no chance of working.  There are plenty of other places to discuss that and no area for it here.

Bruce;

There are the rules directly from Dan the Man himself, this thread should have been nuked from the beginning as OU long before it became this landslide of bull$#!t. You are welcome to have your feelings hurt by my comment if you want to, it was not necessarily directed at you, but the Mods in general. several Mods have weighed in on this thread. You just kept believing GV that it was not overunity, after he stated in almost every post that he expected to get more power out than he put in with the wiper motor. All of his video links were to perpetual motion machines of one form or another.

I agree that GV is probably a reasonably intelligent man and has the ability to make nice machines, but the rules clearly state that OU is not allowed in any way shape or form here, and the mods shouldn't engage in selective enforcement of the rules.


GoVertical

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #116 on: October 22, 2014, 05:59:49 PM »
Hi, thanks for the input. I started this in the diary section. You know the section that is described as a good place to log your projects.
Just for record I am NOT claiming OU.... Others started that mess....

I installed the the PMA. I still have to finish the wiring, then I can test and post results.







The video shows why I started this project. I believe it works like a auto jack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTWwp5qUY3U


It's ok with me to nuke the thread... No problems here....

 
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Bruce S

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #117 on: October 23, 2014, 09:53:37 AM »
I have unlocked this thread IF a former GM/Admin or an owner is locking it, let me know and I'll leave it alone.

DBcollen;
You seem to have it all wrong.
I do not have my feelings hurt, little chide remarks such as you have posted can't even come close to hurting my feelings. IF I had such thin skin; I'd locked you account into read-only already.
Similar to what has been done in the past to posters who piss off the GM/MODS/Admins, just because I could.
I can say , that you are more than welcome to go to another forum if you are so upset with this post or the forum!




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dbcollen

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #118 on: October 23, 2014, 11:02:41 AM »
Bruce;

I am not upset about this post, I in fact agree that GV needs to post the results of his impending failure so other people don't go through the effort he is. I fear that GV will follow the route of many other overunity proponents and claim success, if he does that, he just wasted the time of lots of people, not the least of which is himself. I still believe this thread should have been nuked from the beginning, and would have if the mods were properly doing their jobs.

I am a member of many forums under several different handles, but I have been a member of this one from the early days when it was a great place to learn. I have however been increasingly disappointed with the direction this forum has gone since the last software/staff change. This is definitely not the great place it used to be, or the great place it could be again. I hold no hard feelings against you or the other admins, I would just like to help steer this place back towards how I feel it should be.

Thanks,
D~

JW

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #119 on: October 23, 2014, 06:05:04 PM »
I locked the thread. I think all you guys with the exception GV have missed the point.

"magnet piston engine"

What makes the idea novel is a low pressure steam piston that could be made.

This is the only type of linear generator proposed on this site.


JW

gizmo

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #120 on: October 23, 2014, 09:11:24 PM »

It's ok with me to nuke the thread... No problems here....


Sorry GV but you don't get to ask for that. A lot of people have put their necks out to see this thread continue and see you post the results, because we know what the results will be. Its important that the results are posted by you, the builder, so this build can be used as a teaching tool for others thinking of going down the same path.

My hope is in the future, if anyone thinks of building something similar, we can point them to this thread, and say "This guy is smart, his build is perfect, and he proved it doesn't work. That's why we don't like talking about this sort of thing here and why we are closing your thread."

Glenn

JW

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #121 on: October 23, 2014, 10:31:10 PM »
Quote from: Go vertical
It's ok with me to nuke the thread... No problems here....

Quote from: Gismo
sorry GV but you don't get to ask for that.


http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,148412.msg1030375/topicseen.html#msg1030375

Well He kind of does. The thread was sent to quarantine By Damon. Then-

http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,148414.msg1030391/topicseen.html#msg1030391
http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,148414.msg1030391/topicseen.html

Sorry these links don't work, they are only readable to a GM or admin, because the redirect link is in quarantine

Bruce moved it out of quarantine to the pub, It should have not been moved because Damon is an admin, and we were all kool with that even GV...

I moved the thread back to the open forum. Then Locked it. Which would have the thread as readable.

Whats troubling is that GV's thread was hijacked on the theoretical level by Bruce and others. It was not causing any problems there in quarantine and it was out of sight.

Im not convinced locking the thread is a good example...

I would like to see an actual oscillating driver for the generator and realized that GV does not have that and is making due with the best driver he can, but if a compressed air driven or steam oscillating device was used this whole OU thing would go away.

JW

sorry for the grammar errors :)   
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 10:45:40 PM by JW »

dbcollen

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #122 on: October 23, 2014, 10:45:03 PM »
I locked the thread. I think all you guys with the exception GV have missed the point.

"magnet piston engine"

What makes the idea novel is a low pressure steam piston that could be made.

This is the only type of linear generator proposed on this site.


JW

JW,

Maybe you should go back and read the first post, It is purely electrical.

JW

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #123 on: October 23, 2014, 10:57:33 PM »
That's interesting...

I remember GV using the analogy "its like someone on a swing set, whereas it just needs a push every now and then to keep it going.

In my mind any generating/motor pair wont ever work because the windings will give off heat and the party is over from that point.   

GoVertical

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #124 on: October 24, 2014, 03:24:33 AM »
Hi, it is locked, it is unlocked, nuke it, do not nuke, confused, I know I am ???

Anyways, I have the PMA wired. I hope to do a manual test today and post some numbers. The main reason for the manual test is to get some idea of how the system will work with and without MPPT circuit that I will be using at this time. I am using a irontrics MPPT controller with custom software that sets the duty cycle to 20%.

Originally I thought the wiper motor used only 1.25 Amps @ 12 volts. Today I measured current again and it was more like 4 amps @ 12 volts. I may have a meter problem...

I am just posting a project that I am working on in the diary section, you know the section that is a good place log projects even if it is not RE related. ;D Cheers.



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GoVertical

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #125 on: October 24, 2014, 05:38:31 AM »
Correction, Intronics MPPT controller with custom software that set the duty cycle to 20%
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GoVertical

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #126 on: October 24, 2014, 06:07:00 AM »
Reason for experimenting:

No wind, no power.
No day light, no power.
No falling water, no power.
Steam works but in cold weather it becomes a snow machine.

Gravity is a force that is on all the time.
A lever is used for mechanical advantage. Small force at the input, large force at the output. The loss is distance travelled. 

A motor operates at a loss.
PMA generates electricity, Lenz Law creates drag and heat at the PMA.
MPPT circuit with a variable duty cycle will reduce the drag and heat at the PMA.

Find motor configuration that uses a small force at the input, mechanical advantage, and gravity to produce a large torque at the output shaft to drive a PMA.

Adjust duty cycle of MPPT to prevent motor stall.

Record results and post if allowed, ignore drama and continue working.....
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DamonHD

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #127 on: October 24, 2014, 07:31:35 AM »
To repeat what others have told you before GV: a force does not imply power or energy to be had, at least not more than once until you put energy back in against that force to 'recharge' somehow.

Otherwise a static magnetic field would generate energy: it does not.  You have to do work against that force to extract energy ultimately, eg moving a conductor through that field to convert mechanical energy (eg from wind) to electrical energy.

Rgds

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dnix71

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #128 on: October 24, 2014, 10:40:38 AM »
http://chemed.chem.purdue.edu/genchem/topicreview/bp/ch21/chemical.php

The 2nd law is the one that matters here. The phrase "closed system" is important.

Work by gravity is discussed here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_%28physics%29

If I can draw a circle around your machine, what's inside the machine is the closed system. The input shaft and wires carrying electricity out are outside the system.

If a part of the machine moves up and down the energy to move it up against gravity the first time is supplied by the input shaft. After that you can use some of the machine's stored energy of motion to keep it going. What goes in to make the machine operate must always be more than what comes out, or you are claiming that the laws of Thermodynamics do not apply to you.

A old-fashioned clock powered by a raised weight is very similar to what you are building. The energy to power the clock comes from a falling weight, but the weight will only fall once before it must be raised again by an outside force.

In the case of your machine, the center of mass relative to gravity does not change. Parts of it move up and down but the machine as a whole does not. It therefore cannot and does not use gravity to do work.

gww

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #129 on: October 24, 2014, 03:47:20 PM »
Quote
I am just posting a project that I am working on in the diary section, you know the section that is a good place log projects even if it is not RE related. Cheers.

Govertical

You have mentioned this twice but the only reason to post in the diary is the same reason to post on utube.  It is not a home movie but for others to see. 

One reason to show all is because you think you have come up with something great, or to get imput.

So just be sure to show it all.  I didn't post for drama or to be mean as you have always tried very hard to be helpfull to me.

Posting for projects that are not re is not what you are doing.  You are posting an experment that you seem to believe will be better re.

Dude, just post it all honestly (which I believe you will cause you have in the past).  The reason you have any supporters on this is due to your past.

Good luck
gww

GoVertical

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #130 on: October 24, 2014, 04:23:47 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zayyIlqhAkU&feature=youtu.be

Hi, no bull here. I did a manual test today with really poor results. Based on what I experienced I see no reason to continue this project. My analysis of how this  configuration should work is wrong. I had 60 pounds on the tilt and there was no benefit, in fact it made it was more difficult to turn.  I adjusted all the possible parameters that I could and my conclusion is there no way a small electric motor will make it operate.
Thanks for letting me to post the results.   
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 04:30:33 PM by GoVertical »
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gww

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Re: magnet piston engine
« Reply #131 on: October 24, 2014, 05:23:53 PM »
Govertical
It was very nice machining work. 
Thanks
gww