Author Topic: where to keep the batts inside or out ?  (Read 8501 times)

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sunpower

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where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« on: April 24, 2015, 09:00:02 AM »
most solar installer  say that AGM and the new lithium  it's ok to keep them inside your home  but one installer says not to have any batt inside you home 
we all have cell ph's with batts and other items
so any thoughts on this ?

sunpower

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2015, 12:19:38 PM »
or have i answered my own question  :o

DamonHD

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2015, 12:26:55 PM »
I have a small LiFePO4 (ie the non-exploding sort of Li) off-grid battery inside my home and a big gel lead-acid sort of in the home.  I don't think either represent a significant risk (eg of fire) unless badly abused, of that was what you meant.

Or were you worried about the batteries cooking inside?

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dnix71

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2015, 12:40:33 PM »
Local codes and insurance. It about who pays if something goes wrong. I sleep next to 4 flooded deep cycle batteries, but I'm not normal.  :o

Mine are indoors to keep them dry and clean and to keep the wire runs short and not have to drill through a wall since I rent the apt.

I also have a piped natgas stove inside. I live in south Florida and the windows are always open slightly with a 12vdc fan going any time I'm in the room.. The stove has a shut-off valve in the back and it is turned off completely except when cooking. I'm obviously not married, either, as no respectable woman would tolerate the primitive arrangement I live in.

sunpower

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2015, 12:43:19 PM »
yeah i was wondering if they may blow up or start a fire and kill me
here is a link to the litium batts i am wanting it's the 12V330A-8D
JuiceLithium.com

sunpower

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2015, 12:47:39 PM »
i have about 4 35amp Hr AGM's inside now  and no problems as of yet
but i am new to the lithium   and they are so many types of lithium  batts now 

dnix71

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2015, 01:15:06 PM »
That 12v lithium battery price is insane unless you had to put it in orbit and weight mattered a lot.
12V330A-8D JuiceLithium.com $5300  ???

OperaHouse

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2015, 02:03:07 PM »
I'm moving everything to an external shed this year.

sunpower

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2015, 02:09:47 PM »
that is the full retail price i can get em a bit cheaper or maybe a lot cheaper

Mary B

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2015, 05:26:51 PM »
I have 16 232 amp hour flooded lead acid batteries sitting 4 feet behind me... sealed battery box vented to outside takes care of any fume issue.

dnix71

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2015, 08:28:15 PM »
What would make me nervous working around that lithium battery is it's cranking amps and total energy.
http://www.getlithium.com/Standard-series-battery-2014-pages-NO-BMS/Std-12-Volt-330A-8D-CTRL400-400-amps-Car-Truck-Marine-RV-lithium-ion-battery.html
The page claims over 4KWH total storage and 400 amps continous discharge with a 1700 amp 1 sec pulse. Drop a spanner or short a wire and you will have an explosion (the spanner or wire, not the battery). A normal deep cycle battery car/truck start size only has about 1kwh total storage.
2,000 to 3,000 cycles at 80% DOD is 5 1/2 to 8 years daily use. I wonder what restricting it to 50% DOD would get you.

clockmanFRA

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2015, 05:34:32 AM »
I think it depends on battery size, and your circumstances.

Here's some photo's of my 2 tons of AGM,s & GEL types batteries 48v 1300ah. The batteries have been here about 5 years.

The Building they all sit in is 100 yards from the main house. Its a restored French Ancient Oak Framed building called a Lavoir, where a hundred years ago the owners of the Farm House would wash their clothes in the underground spring water that issues forth.
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

oztules

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2015, 06:49:00 AM »
Flinders Island Australia

OperaHouse

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2015, 04:43:22 PM »
Many years ago I watched a fire as the firemen waited for the utility company to come and shut off the electric before they took action.  These power systems are confusing to inspectors and emergency personnel.   A visible disconnect  on an external shed is a good answer.

Mary B

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2015, 05:09:08 PM »
My system is all internal inside the house. Batteries would be the least of their worries though. I have a pretty good sized ammunition collection, powder for reloading, primers for reloading...

kitestrings

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2015, 07:24:52 PM »
You didn't mention where you live.  If temps are extreme, in either direction, in the house can be a plus compared to an uninsulated unheated (or cooled) location.   Where we live winter lows complicates putting them in an out-building.

I like the "Lavoir".  Very cool structure/setting.  Does it have to be closed in, in colder weather?  What are the red beacon lights?

It probably goes without saying, but the lead acid banks should really be vented, not just for health and safety - that's the main thing - but otherwise the corrosion of terminals not too mention neighboring metal bits and pieces can be a factor.

~ks

XeonPony

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2015, 08:39:32 AM »
My home is a 30 foot rv to understand:

On the front table there is a storage compartments, I normally never use them, so I sealed it gas tight, insulated it, put heater and control system in it for the heater, then batteries

So they are inside the living space inside a climate controlled gas tight box vented to out side, winter the vent is choked down very low.

The heater is one of those 12v ceramic units in the 200w range, batteries are all spaced by 1 inch by a wood lattice guide bolted to the floor (This prevents movement while moving the trailer)

and I use an auto watering system to fill batteries to ensure all are equally filled.
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

clockmanFRA

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2015, 12:22:56 PM »
Hi ya Kitestrings,

Touques Valley, 10 miles from Camembert, (cheese place) Normandy, France.

Winter minus 25c, summer plus 35c, But that mass of water plus the spring water is always at a constant temperature.

The Lavoir has No doors, No front covers. The batteries and control equipment for the 5kW of PV trackers and the 3off 12 footers diameter Wind Turbine control boxes are all boxed in in locked cupboard units that are well ventilated with fine insect mesh.

Orange flashing lights are 2off wired in series 24v DC lashing beacons that are connected to the Wind turbine Dump Load circuits, its just a visual warning for me when I am outside somewhere to go and switch some loads on.
Besides, it lights up the countryside and looks pretty, and since we have no neighbours, who cares.

Might have to start re-using the spring for washing my clothes. As the SMA Sunny Island 6, 48v to 230vac Inverter,I recently installed, has a very unstable frequency HZ.
 And when the battery voltage goes up to bulk, 57v, when charging,  the blasted Sunny Island puts the frequency up to 59HZ, and hence the washing machine will not work.  Here in France and Europe the standard frequency for all domestic electrical  products is 50HZ.
Absolute nightmare here trying to get any SMA support for the SI. All I gets from Germany is, "far to much DC Coupling" etc, but still the SI goes up and down the frequency like a yo yo.

Kitestrings, that Lavoiur roof faces South so just about to remove them old Amorphous PV panels and put 2kW of Mono's 250 watts.  ;D


« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 12:29:14 PM by clockmanFRA »
Everything is possible, just give me time.

OzInverter man. Normandy France.
http://www.bryanhorology.com/renewable-energy-creation.php

3 Hugh P's 3.7m Wind T's (12 years) .. 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 yrs) .. 9kW PV AC coupled to OzInverter MINI Grid, back charging AC Coupling to 48v 1300ah battery

kitestrings

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2015, 09:02:23 AM »
Quote
Winter minus 25c

That's pretty cold.  Do you notice much difference in available capacity in the winter?  We've been trying out an EV - a Leaf, in our 3rd year now - which has Lithium batteries.  I have a 64 mile round trip commute to work.  Works great from now until ~December, but then the range takes a big hit.  Seventy miles summer turns into <50 miles winter.  There are other factors at work: winter tires and snow-covered roads, climate control, but I know Nissan doesn't recommend it being parked where winter temps are below ~-14F/26C for more then a day or so...  Oz's solution looks tidy, but wouldn't work in our climate.

I glad you included the second set of pictures, now I can see the Lavoir in relation to the turbines.   It looks like their sprouting ;)  Actually, it is very reminiscent of many of the farms around us when I was growing up.  Most everyone had a "spring house" of sorts.  On our farm I remember the spearmint leaves that we're always growing there, and the constant over-flow of fresh cold water.

Quote
I use an auto watering system to fill batteries to ensure all are equally filled

We just worked again at a site with one of these.  They are very slick.  She had given me the link for their vender, and I never follow up.  Theirs was a few squeezes of a what looked like a gas primer bulb.  It seemed simple enough.

XeonPony

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Re: where to keep the batts inside or out ?
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2015, 09:05:54 PM »
Mine is the same, few squeezes and I know every battery is filled exactly to the right level, next time I'll get one with plumbed vent line so my battery compartment can be air tight.

https://flow-rite.com/battery-watering/pro-fill  <That's the one I have now.

Tried to find the ones with the sealed venys to a single line but just too much garbage resualts.
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!