From New SMA INVERTER SI6.OH-11, battery full 50HZ Jumps to 60Hz

[clockmanFRA]

Early evening and the SI6 has just gone to 60HZ again even with the latest Firmware Bug Fixes.

And just tested and the frequency, loads no loads, is again matching the voltage rise and fall. 

When the SI6 went high, the battery is full and on float, all DC PV is shut down just a couple of 100 watts coming in, Wind turbines output minimal as there is no wind.
2.5kW PV on Ac Coupling but the sun is setting so not much from that.

As you can imagine I am getting mighty peeved, to say the least. 

Received this mail this afternoon......
The latest third response from SMA.
Interestingly, Please note the downgrade in the SI6 specifications from what they publish with the SI6.

"Dear Mr. .....,
thank you for the information.
Unfortunately we didn´t received the mentioned sd card data. For reliable analysis we ask you to send it again.
But it seems that the plant dimensioning is the problem.
The requirements for AC coupled energy generation at the SI6.0H are:
Max. 2 x rated power of the SI (4,6KVA), so max. 10KVA at AC1.
At least 100Ah of battery capacity for each KWp of energy generation at AC1.
I do not understand your information about the total amount of energy generation at AC1, but it seems that it is to much.
E.G. the wind turbines. Is this in total 4,5KVA or 3 x 4,5KVA? How is it assured that the wind turbine is limited to 4,5KVA?
3,7m of diameter can generate relevant higher power at higher wind speeds.
Is there anything connected to the Sunny Island AC2 ?
It seems that the frequency rises due to much excess energx that cannot be limited by the SI. But this can only be assured by data evaluation.
Sincerely
SMA Serviceteam
SMA Solar Technology AG"

I couldn't make this up if I tried.

No SD card eh, yea right! sent 10 days ago.

I told them that AC1 just had 2.5kW Pv attached.
Told them Its an Off Grid use, no AC2 connection, no generator.

Regards the Wind Turbines, I told them they were DC direct charging the batteries, and on their forms that the Tristars PWM would dump any extra over voltage, regards going over the battery charging voltages.
But very importantly I said that the Turbines were shut down when the latest fault occurred with the frequency going to 60HZ.
I even wrote that in bold letters.

Honest chaps and chapess's I think I am on my own here, if the SMA so called Specialists can not understand basic renewable energy systems.............

[SparWeb]

It sounds like they are confused about your system set-up, but let me add this:  Keep explaining anyway.  For the person doing tech support long-distance it can be very hard to build a picture of the system around the equipment with the fault. 

I have no idea how a 60Hz signal could come from anywhere else, when you live in the 50Hz world and are off-grid anyway.

Can you e-mail the file that was on the SD card?

[clockmanFRA]

Thanks Sparweb in your willingness to have a look.

There is about 10 files on the SD Card which one do you want please.

Many thanks.

[SparWeb]

Hi Clockman,

Send me a Private Message because site policy is to not print e-mail addresses directly (for good reason).
You can also send me an e-mail right now because the e-mail icon is enabled under my avatar image.
Before sending, please tell me what size and format these files are.  I didn't expect 10 files.  This might be a combination of logs and config files. 
Some may not be readable without a special utility.
As long as it's something a human can read without a special utility then there's a chance to crack it.

If you are corresponding with SMA by e-mail, why don't they ask for the files themselves by e-mail?

[clockmanFRA]

Hi SparWeb.
Okay will do, the files are not big but they do show a couple of days after a reset where the Frequency went a-wall.

I understand SMA Germany have just had a make over, but I just find talking to them very difficult, it is as if they just do not want to talk to me....... Like they are reading a Computer screen that says, "nothing wrong, tell customer its his fault".

 If I switch the SI to DC Charging sources mode only, Yes the frequency stays at 50HZ, but when I switch to DC sources and AC Coupling, (the reason I bought the SI) nope the Frequency is all over the place and generally tracks the battery voltage from 48HZ to 59.98HZ. The SI seems to have difficulty differentiating between Battery voltage rise and Frequency control.
 
The fault is now constant and the AC Coupling, SB 3000 2.5kW PV, will no longer connect to my SI Mini Grid as the frequency is all over the place. The SB is set in Off Grid mode and uses the 50HZ to 52HZ as its power output limiting Mode.

Thanks SparWeb
 

[DamonHD]

My understanding of how the SI is meant to work is that it should gradually push microgeneration sources off-line as the batteries get full to reduce/eliminate the need for dumping, using frequency as a signal to grid-connected microgeneration.

Rgds

Damon

[clockmanFRA]

Hi Damon,

Yes its supposed to up the frequency and push the AC Coupling off, which it does, but with my SI the frequency keeps on going up to 60HZ. I have now asked SMA if they can limit this top frequency rise to just 54HZ, then at least the washing machine, fridge, freezers etc will work.

The Problem is that the SI just doesn't see or understand the DC Coupled Charging controllers that are charging the battery bank that the SI is also using.

So the SI goes nuts!.

However, the settings in the SI says it can see the battery voltage rising, and actually has a setting for "AC Coupling & DC Charging sources". For me those settings do not work.

I have now downed the Bulk/absorb charge rates on my Tristar MPPT & Midnite controllers, and upped the SI float charge rate, so hopefully no other controller will overtake the SI. But obviously it puts a strain on my batteries and this is only really a temporary solution.
 When I have more Sunny boys connected/AC Coupled, I do not want the SI to use spare AC Coupling charge to back charge my battery bank and over cook my batteries.
At present I have just 2.5kW PV that is AC Coupled to the SI, but this is normally well soaked up by normal stuff around the house, so the SI Charging system is hardly charging.

Personally speaking I do not think much to the SI charging regime as it seems quite crude, the best is the Midnite Classic 200 controller its always spot on and quick to respond.

I purchased the SI because it said it could do AC Coupling and DC Sources Coupling, so I am disappointed I have issues.

I am trying to achieve a sustainable and renewable energy supply with a mixture of energy creation sources, but importantly not just to spend vast's amount of money on the latest this and that with sparkly displays etc.   So this new expensive SI inverter was the first big RE purchase for us here, and the concept of using cost-effective, used/second hand, Sunny boys GTI's on my SI created Mini Grid gave the edge over other manufacturers, well that was the plan.

My previous 48vdc to 230vac Inverter was a used/second hand 3.7kw APC UPS unit, but it does draw about 150w permanently when its on. But now reluctantly I am looking at using a 10kW APC UPS unit as just a clean 50HZ frequency Inverter and reluctantly increase the size of my battery bank.



 

[DamonHD]

Your situation is interesting because it is similar to how I would use an SI unit if I bought one, using the batteries that the SI unit thinks it owns as a dump load for my small off-grid excess that otherwise goes to waste.

It may be that different country settings may alter the frequency cap, by design or accident!

Rgds

Damon

[clockmanFRA]

I have had a response from SMA, and basically..............'Tough'.

The SI will go 'nuts' when the battery voltage rises above its own set Charging rates.

The thing is Damon, Its the AC side of the mini Grid that the SI is creating, that I want to rise and fall, and therefore control the connected SB's Grid tied Inverters, AC Coupling.  But the SI can not differentiate between the DC battery voltage and what's happening on the AC Coupling 230v AC Side.

SMA response, 'fit a relay and switch of the DC Connected sources or load shed, when the battery voltage rises'.
And yes, I did tell them I have 3off, 12 footer Wind Turbines, connected with Tristar PWM on diversion loads to heat dumps, and there is no way I am just shutting them off.  Can you imagine, no load/battery connection.......I would be picking the bits up for Hundreds of feet.  .

So going from a small Renewable System and gently growing it to a large System, is not that easy with a SMA Sunny Island.

And spending loads of money defeats the original purpose.?

If its Okay with you Damon, I will post a short synopsis about the SI and my results, it may help others in the future.?

[oztules]

I think the SI is doing what it thinks is correct, and that even if the other charging sources don't overtake the SI, it is still trying to ease off the charge the only way it knows.... and will chase the voltage up using the frequency as a weapon.... to no avail

You can't seem to beat the programmers lack of foresight, so you will have to get around it.

My system is a Powerjack LF unit comprising  their control card and fet boards only. I used grid tie transformers to wind my own transformer, and thats my inverter... very powerful indeed.

I use 1 or 2 grid ties ac coupled to that as well as 10kw of normal solar. Obviously, the powerjacks computer is not set for the frequency variance that the SI uses... and i was of the understanding that the frequency drift was very small for the SI... not so... it is stupid programming.

My grid ties naturally drop off when the batteries are at absorb voltage and near finished as a generality. When the batts get there (59v) the excess from the grid ties has nowhere else to go, so will naturally push the AC up .. to 255v, then their own computer will drop them off, leaving only the solar controller to finish off.

The grid tie will try to come on again, but turn off in seconds.

I tired if this, and built a voltage relay that monitors the battery voltage, and shuts of and breaks the ac connection when it sees 59v.
Hysterisis is set so it won't reengage until it sees 55v.... This stops the grid tie using it's own over voltage as the cut off, and restarting when i don't need it to....slightly more civilized.

I have flooded cells, and they thoroughly enjoy a bit of bubbling... your sealed would not.... but it is simply a matter of setting the voltage relay a bit lower perhaps, then let the solar controller do the rest.

Use the SI so that it does not even try to control ... not why you bought the SI, but it will still do what you want.... just not as smoothly.


...............oztules

[clockmanFRA]

Thanks for the information 'oztules'.

[clockmanFRA]

Here are some graphs of my SI working, from 1st of May until the 5th of May, a particular big thanks to 'Sparweb' for collating the SD Card Data.

'Sparweb's' Notes.....

 There is an interruption of 30 minutes around noon on 3 May which I presume is the SI being disconnected.  Apart from that, operation of the SI is continuous, in a manner of speaking.  The logs are continuous, I should say.

The battery estimate of SOC is reset to 100% twice, for no apparent reason.
The battery voltage does not have a "bulk-float" pattern like mine does.
The battery charge current is repeatedly switching + and - during the 5th of May, but it could just be busy machines on a sunny day.  The rest of the charge pattern looks typical of weekday-weekend usage.

Of course, the inverting drops out many times.  The frequency graph looks worse than the Inverter Voltage graph - and it's getting flakier all the time.  It jumps to 60Hz and parks there for hours.  Other times, it jumps back and forth between 60Hz and 49Hz.

[clockmanFRA]

Story so far.......

My Specific questions to, SMA Service, are not answered. Example:- a)  How much is To much DC Coupling, no specification?. b) Why doesn't the SI stop the Frequency rise at 54Hz as per the SI specification.

SMA Germany has NOT responded to my Complaint letter sent by Post on 20th April 2015.

The frequency control will NOT stop at 54hz as specified by SMA and climbs to 59.99hz. In consequence my domestic appliances will not function and are now rapidly failing.
My Washing machine is no longer working and the Chest Freezer, and Upright Fridge Freezer, and Microwave are not working correctly.   I will have to purchase a new Washing machine etc. 

I cannot DC Couple and AC Couple as specified by SMA. To do so requires outside equipment not specified by SMA in their specifications.

SMA have instructed me to either not charge my batteries sufficient or that I should allow them to boil and be destroyed with over charging. My batteries are ageing fast and will need replacement.
 
SMA have instructed me to arrange relays to disconnect DC Charging sources, including my 3off 3.7m dia Wind turbines. Disconnecting my wind turbines will rapidly lead to their destruction. Again, no mention of this arrangement in the SI SMA specification.

As you can imagine I am getting fed up.
I tried talking to SMA, then I give them my serial Number, and, "You must talk to your SMA Service contact" end of conversation.
Tried posting on the SMA SI Blog, in German and within 3 minutes my posts were deleted.

I will give SMA another call tomorrow and try and get some sense.
 

[DamonHD]

I'd think that you would have simple recourse under law to have the goods replaced or a complete refund as clearly unfit for purpose.

In the UK you'd start with the Sale of Goods Act or similar.

And you might have recourse for damages for their faulty equipment damaging your batteries and household goods, and them attempting to induce you to destroy your turbines.

Start that process and you are likely to end up with their attention and/or money back, IMHO.

Rgds

Damon

[Mary B]

I wonder if SMA knows how badly this is going to hurt them. The RE community os not that big and something like this will spread fast. Bad reviews can really kill sales!

[clockmanFRA]

Hi Damon,

Officially started the process this morning.

But first I telephoned SMA UK, and I asked to speak to a manager but the receptionist was not having it, so I read out my official letter and told her that it would be in the post to SMA UK as a registered and verified retuned signature. (the French way of sending legal documents).

As I paid for the Sunny island from a UK Card/UK Bank account with my UK address, I am now following a procedure. At the end of the Month I will be in the UK and will start County Court Proceedings against SMA.

What a way to complain? Is SMA that Incompetent?.

Mary B,.............. Personally speaking I think its a very long time since SMA took any notice of real RE.
SMA are trying the big company on social media concept, but as you all realise things can come back and bite hard.
As yet I have not let Mrs Clockmanfra loose on her twitter, and facebook accounts etc. And she is the intelligent one with MBA's and Doctorates and the like.

I have not posted on my 'French Ramblings Sustainability' yet, and that has just under 400,000 views, https://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20361.0.html

And all I want is the SI fixed and working like the original SMA published specifications.

[DamonHD]

Ha, receptionists do ... um ... sometimes overdo it.

I was trying to get pricing on 1MWh of grid-connected Li battery for a UK energy company from a large German supplier and the receptionist was unbelievable.  Got through in the end but only by bypassing her...  And got my quote.

Rgds

Damon

[SparWeb]

Glad I could help.

I'm still very puzzled by the readings taken from the machine. 

In off-grid operation, the Sunny Island inverters must be able to limit their output power, if PV inverters are connected on
the AC side. This situation can occur when, for example, the battery of the Sunny Island is fully charged and the PV power
available from the PV system exceeds the power requirement of the connected loads.

I'm with them so far.  I would expect a PV inverter to respond to "grid overfrequency" this way.

To prevent the excess energy from overcharging the battery, the Sunny Island recognizes this situation and changes the
frequency at the AC output. This frequency change is monitored by the PV inverter. As soon as the power frequency
increases beyond the value specified in "Fac" (Start Delta), the PV inverter limits its output power accordingly.

Also in line with what I expected, and provides more detail about how the devices interact.

At this point, though, I want to step in and add a bit of terminology.  The phrase "PV Inverter" does not help clarify which inverter we are talking about.

I always understood the Sunny-Island inverter concept to be a "master-slave" relation ship. 
The SI is the Master because it sets the frequency. 
It is given the authority to be the master because it's got all the batteries.

All other inverters on line must be slaves, such as a Sunny Boy that is handling a string of PV output.
That's the theory.  Now look at this:



According to that, the Sunny Boys should begin to disconnect when the Sunny Island raises the frequency above 52 Hertz.

Somehow, either this isn't happening, or the SI thinks they are still there when the SB's have already disconnected.

[clockmanFRA]

The latest reply from....

SMA Solar Technology AG
Lisanne Schneider
Service
Sonnenallee 1
34266 Niestetal
Germany.

"We understand that you're not quite satisfied with the current situation in your system.
But the Sunny Islands now give out an inverter frequency up to 60Hz if there is still energy going into the batteries.
This is not a mistake of the current firmware version."

So there you are folks, the SI will fry your domestic appliances, and that's all okay according to SMA. 

And to get round the problem I have to install loads of equipment that is not specified in the SI Technical specs, and purchase and install SMA DC Charging equipment, and again this is not in the SI Technical specs.

[SparWeb]

I went to my back-issues of Home Power because I remember they recently did an article about these.  Issue 162, August 2014 if you want to find it.

Page 24 "AC Coupling":

Normally, the charge controller in a DC-coupled system includes the function of reducing output from the array when the batteries are full. Most batteryless inverters do not include this function. When used with Sunny Island inverters, SMA America's Sunny Boy inverters include it. (Note: Sunny Island inverters output 120 VAC, so either the Smartformer or a second Sunny Island inverter will be required to produce 240 VAC to match the output of a 240 VAC grid-tied inverter.)  The battery-based inverter communicates with the batteryless inverter to restrict incoming power to only what is needed.

Other models, such as those from Magnum Energy, OutBack Power, and Schneider Electric, support AC-coupled systems but use less-sophisticated control methods to force the inverter to go offline. This happens either by adjusting the frequency of the AC power, which indicates an “out-of-spec” waveform to the batteryless inverter, or by using a relay to disconnect. This on/off control of the array versus a multistage charge controlling is harder on the batteries. Because of this, some manufacturers support using their battery-based inverters only for grid-tied AC-coupled systems, where excess energy is sent to the grid—but not for off-grid systems, where charge control is important.

Sorry - that has only added to my confusion.  The SI is supposed to communicate with the PV inverters rather than adjust frequency?  Which story is correct?

Maybe Zeke Yewdall or Justine Sanchez at HP could shed some light if you wrote them a letter?

[clockmanFRA]

Hi Sparweb,

Yes I wondered if the SI does what it is supposed to so on the 30th March I did a test by altering the SI frequency and seeing what leaks through from the Sunny Boy.

I restarted the SI on  52, 53 & 54Hz under constant PV of approx. 360W as it was a dismal day.
Using just one SB3800 AC Grid tied to the SI AC1 input/output.
at 50Hz SB shows 360W Output.
at 52HZ SB showing a 63W output.
at 53HZ SB shows a 43W output.
at 54HZ SB shows a 34W output, and then tripped out showing disturbance. This is what it is supposed to do, as at 54HZ the SB agrees with its internal settings that are set when in Island/Off Grid Mode.

I swapped Sunny Boys, and tried a SB3000 AC Grid tied to the SI AC1 input/output.
at 50Hz SB Showed 420w Output.
at 52HZ SB showed 0W Output.
I have left the SB3000 still connected as this SB doesn't leak, but still the Frequency goes 'Nuts'.

So I believe the SB's are NOT giving the SI problems, and the SB's shut down as requested when the SI 'UP's' the Frequency as Specified. So that bit works.
(Note, The SI is 150 yards from the SB, so I had to run, run ,run, well it amused the locals here watching the Mad Man running up and down French fields. phew!.)

The Fault seems to be around the SI's Charging regime that is linked to the battery voltage, and the SI can not differentiate between what the battery is doing and what voltage is coming in and out of the SI.

The SI has a shunt sensor on the negative cables between the battery and other DC Controllers /charge sources, and is supposed to see all the ups and downs of these and amend accordingly.

Now I can watch the battery being charged or giving loads on the real life display screen, so the amperage can be seen going + or -.

But My SI will not have any of it. Battery rises just above SI Float setting, 'Wham' away goes the frequency.

Checking with other SI owners around the World, Like Stephen in Spain, ..........."My 5048 which is only DC coupled using a non-SMA charge controller.  The charging schedule and voltages of this external controller are in no way synchronised with the SMA, so it spends half it's time wanting to FLOAT when the charger controller is doing a bulk, absorb or even an EQ.  This has no effect on the SMA's frequency"

And from a SMA SI Installer in Scotland......"I don't remember ever seeing 60Hz though.  It's quite likely you have a dud inverter.  Operating with DC charging sources is quite normal and should not present either of the issues you are seeing.”

So Purchasers of the new all singing and dancing SI6.OH-11, beware, beware, battery voltage just a little to High, your Inverter Frequency goes 'NUTS'.

And as Lisanne Schneider, of SMA Service has said, "But the Sunny Islands now give out an inverter frequency up to 60Hz if there is still energy going into the batteries.
This is not a mistake of the current firmware version."

What next?   

[DamonHD]

Continue with your "not fit for purpose" action, cheaply.  I think it's highly likely that you'll get your money back and you can use that to work on getting payment for repairs/replacements for your appliances.

Rgds

Damon

[mab]

And as Lisanne Schneider, of SMA Service has said, "But the Sunny Islands now give out an inverter frequency up to 60Hz if there is still energy going into the batteries.
This is not a mistake of the current firmware version."

by implication then it is a feature of the current firmware version - so it suggests that an earlier version might work better? - have SMA not suggested trying and older version?

That's assuming this isn't just a flakey inverter, though.

[SparWeb]

Does anyone else think it's ironic that your contact at SMA is named "Schneider"?

[DamonHD]

"nominative determinism"

[SparWeb]

I'm never going to play scrabble with you now, Damon.

[clockmanFRA]

My grid ties naturally drop off when the batteries are at absorb voltage and near finished as a generality. When the batts get there (59v) the excess from the grid ties has nowhere else to go, so will naturally push the AC up .. to 255v, then their own computer will drop them off, leaving only the solar controller to finish off.

The grid tie will try to come on again, but turn off in seconds.

I tired if this, and built a voltage relay that monitors the battery voltage, and shuts of and breaks the ac connection when it sees 59v.
Hysterisis is set so it won't reengage until it sees 55v.... This stops the grid tie using it's own over voltage as the cut off, and restarting when i don't need it to....slightly more civilized.

Nice to here  'oztules' that you have had a go at AC Coupling and have a working system.
Yes 52HZ is the shut down the GTI's, and 54HZ is deffinate OFF, I confirm this with testing the GTI' Sunny Boys.

Your comments on backfeeding to the Main Inverter is interesting, do you have any specific inverter that's cost effective and will stand backfeeding voltage rise. I was thinking of a Used APC UPS 10000va as the Inverter base.
 I know you have talked about different Inverters any links please.

However my Sunny Island 6 has misbehaved from NEW only had it running 3 months, and for the serious amount of money I spent, I thought that SMA and I could sort it out.

I did have a eager young SMA lad from the UK advising me and checking through my system very thoroughly, but after I sent him the SD card data again, sad to say I have not heard word from him for the past 8 days.

I now have a new advisor from the German Service team dealing with my issues, so I expect to go around and around again.

As regards the SI, I now have other folk contacting me and telling me their woes of the excessive Frequency rise, ............. http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13582.0.html .........so I am not the only one who has problems. How did he resolve it, he replaced DC chargers/controllers with SMA DC Chargers. And altered his dump loads on the Wind Turbine. A month later is Power shed building burnt down. The wind turbine controller (set for diversion load) would go to float early and the SI would backfeed /charge the batteries and operate the Dump load, the dump load got so hot it melted itself and everything around it.
 
Nope, not having that sort of stupid nonsense from SMA.................

[sean_ork]

With regard to the previous post.

The incident depicted occurred approximately 4 years ago, partly due to an experiment by the local installer, but primarily due to the proximity of heat and combustible materials.

Simply, the dump loads where not installed in a suitable location.

The ill informed installer reduced the size of the dump load in an attempt to resolve an operational issue. The issue could not ultimately be satisfactorily resolved using the originally installed equipment as it was concluded that the functionality required was not supported - the original installers apparently became rather difficult to contact when the issues became known.

The various issues raised were well documented and discussed elsewhere, many years BEFORE CM purchased his equipment.

Implying that the fire was as a result of incompetence, failure or inadequacy of the original SMA equipment, in an attempt to add credence to a current issue that CM has with his much more recent purchase is simply misleading.

Some very sound advice is being given to CM elsewhere, this clearly points to yet another case of the wrong equipment being purchased for the intended purpose.

Whilst is it understood that CM feels aggrieved that he has not been able to configure his equipment to function as he is expecting it to function, he should accept that the manufacturer is a proven competent company, who have a very large number of very happy customers, and who (had they been given the opportunity) would have been happy to specify the correct equipment BEFORE purchase.

Expecting a manufacturer to provide support for an application that is outwith the scope of functionality will not be productive.

I don't work for SMA, I'm just one of many happy customers who have found their support to be superb, as are their products (when correctly specified and installed)

[DamonHD]

I have four SMA grid tie inverters which seem to work well.

On the other hand they have been completely unhelpful with me on a related minor matter that would probably have been easy for them to resolve, or explain why they couldn't, even when approached via a couple of significant reseller partners.  "Talk to the hand" was the impression I got.  It wouldn't help them stay at the top of my list when selecting equipment again.

So, technical titan or service with a snarl?  Some of an individual's customer experience will be luck.

Rgds

Damon

[sean_ork]

Some of an individual's customer experience will be luck.

Yes that's true, or bad luck in your case.

I've dealt with many of their support and techy folks over numerous years, sure they won't always instantly be able to find a resolution - give them concise and accurate detail, allow them time to consider, if its an issue that they are responsible for - they will resolve it without fail.

[DamonHD]

if its an issue that they are responsible for - they will resolve it without fail.

In my minor case, they failed.

Rgds

Damon

[mab]

...Some very sound advice is being given to CM elsewhere, this clearly points to yet another case of the wrong equipment being purchased for the intended purpose.

Whilst is it understood that CM feels aggrieved that he has not been able to configure his equipment to function as he is expecting it to function, he should accept that the manufacturer is a proven competent company, who have a very large number of very happy customers, and who (had they been given the opportunity) would have been happy to specify the correct equipment BEFORE purchase.

Expecting a manufacturer to provide support for an application that is outwith the scope of functionality will not be productive.
...

I think CM's grievance stems fro m the fact that the SMA spec for the SI explicitly says it can work with both AC coupled and DC sources; but doesn't mention that the dc controllers must also be SMA or that the SI output frequency can rise to 120% of nominal, causing problems for some 50Hz rates appliances.

As I understand it CM chose the SMA specifically because their literature said it would work with AC sources and DC sources, and gave him no reason to believe his existing DC controllers would all have to be replaced with SMA products.

[sean_ork]

A lot of advice was taken from folks on the net who didn't have the depth of understanding required to fully appreciate how the unit in question would integrate with his rather ad hoc system.

Unfortunately its not them that has to now face up to the practicalities of the unit not being fit for the intended purpose. Had SMA been directly involved with its specification, pre purchase, then indeed they would be expected to resolve the issue in question.

There is an assumption (and it is clearly stated within all SMA documentation) that the unit should be installed by a competent person.

Whilst CM may well be a competent time keeping instrument maker, he may well have bitten off more than his scope of learning can manage with this unit - there would be no shame in admitting that, its a complex device. Even SMA had the foresight to password protect the "expert" menus. And elsewhere comments are being made based on an interpretation of what specific functionality will offer, the depth of understanding just isn't there.

Here is an example .......


As regards the 'NoFreq'  Paul uses, I wonder if the voltage on the AC1 might rise a bit if the SB's power is not being used, (Ozoutels reckons it will), then perhaps I can set the SB's GTI's to disconnect themselves....? Or does the 'No freq' actually mean No frequency rise for the SB's or Not. Perhaps it does still rise by the 2HZ but the DC charging side is no longer linked to the HZ?

Purchasing equipment, and then trying to configure it, based on an assumption of functionality is not always a recipe for success.

SMA know what their products do, in depth, their pre sales support is very approachable - its a bit late for than now, but their techy folks are trying to help you, help them help you.

So CM, why not stop ranting on the net, threatening legal action, stop listening to only those who you argree with and admit you might not have purchased the right unit - maybe even accept the advice that the SMA folks have already given you.

Try working with them, currently it appears you are trying to fight them.