Author Topic: Converting power created from a homemade generator  (Read 35458 times)

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Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #99 on: October 28, 2015, 08:27:12 PM »
Howdy everyone! Exciting times, I've finally had a chance to record some numbers!
First and foremost, thank you Hiker for the washers suggestion, it worked instantly and the rotors are spinning true!

Here is the data:
Space between magnets of each rotor(air gap?) - 1.9cm
Coil Thickness - 1.1 cm

That leaves 0.4 cm of space on each side of the coil.

Now for the fun data :D
120 RPM - 0.3V
145 RPM - 0.4V
175 RPM - 0.5V
185 RPM - 0.6V
190 RPM - 0.9V
200 RPM - 1.0V
210 RPM - 1.2V

Would the next course of action be to make coils in these shapes of 90 turns?

electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #100 on: October 29, 2015, 09:45:22 AM »
yes you can taper the coils.
 enlarging the trapezoidal base  so the legs follow the angle of the 60 degree segment.
that will increase the time the legs of the coils are over two mags of opposite polarity. there is a penalty paid by added resistance

if you have a tile saw you can cut up mags and add magnet material to form  a trapezoidal shape.

you can also stack another layer of mags over the ones you have now .
that should increase flux density by 20%

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #101 on: October 29, 2015, 11:27:25 AM »
Alrighty I will make the template for the coils and start there!

hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #102 on: October 30, 2015, 12:58:15 PM »
Might need a few more turns per coil....120...?   Two in hand on your wire as well.. Or just wait until your next build 😜
WILD in ALASKA

electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #103 on: October 31, 2015, 09:42:47 AM »
there is another tidbit . unlike a single phase alt  were every second  coil is wired in reverse when your build a 3 phase alt. all the coils are laid down in the same direction. each coil in each phase is wired in series.

Okay, so I've done a few tests and crunched some numbers, please feel free to correct me if you see any errors in calculation.

With single rotor, spinning at 130 RPM by a 90 turn coil of 20 AWG wire yielded 0.1V.

Being able to keep up around 540 rpm on my bike, I hypothesize:

540/130=4.143
Assuming 2 rotors would double the output, and I would have 6 coils... (0.1V X 2)X 6 = 1.2V at 130 RPM
Since I can achieve an RPM 4.143 time greater than 130... 1.2V X 4.143 = 4.98V.

for your 6/8alternator in three phase you total the volts per  coil (2)  then multiply by 1.74  then multiply by1.4 for rectification to dc and then subtract 1.4 volts for voltage drop through the rectifiers.
that explains why people will to spend $10 + neo. mags.
explains why i have been building single phase alternators  for slow moving vertical mills  so i can total the output of all the coils.



Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #104 on: November 02, 2015, 06:35:51 PM »
So I've decided to bite the bullet and just go with it. Seeing as this is my first build I'm not expecting too much, and therefore instead of shelling out money on a lot more coil I've decided to go with 75 turns per coil for this project.

I have 3 coils done, and hope to have all 6 done by the end of the week. I will post pictures as it starts coming together!

Try as I may, I keep looking to my next project and I look forward to continuing this pursuit of learning and experimentation.

electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #105 on: November 03, 2015, 09:06:46 AM »
we are experimenters
 we are all looking to our next project to answer our questions.

 


hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #106 on: November 06, 2015, 08:20:15 PM »
how goes the build ?
WILD in ALASKA

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #107 on: November 08, 2015, 09:31:24 AM »
It's going great!!

Finished all the coils yesterday. To wind them I cut a piece of plywood to shape and sandwiched it between two pieces of wood.
Here's a few pictures of the coils.
Them in a circle:

Close up:

Now I have only to figure out how to keep them in place between my magnets! Anyone have tips? I was considering buying some thin plywood and drilling holes in it. I would then use zip-ties to hold each coil in place on the sheet.

Thanks!

hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #108 on: November 08, 2015, 01:30:02 PM »
Lookin good.....I like to compress my coils .. After i remov from winder. Use a couple pieces of scrap ply...then toss in a vice and compress each one...they seem to hold their shape .better...plus. The hole in the coil is normally the size of the mag...yours should work...just not sure of any loss or gain on yours...on my stator I justi use plywood the same thickness as my coils..then lay coils on that and draw around each coil..then cut that out..and inlay each coil in the cutout..with epoxy...just my way..its a hobby for me..that never ends😜😜😂
WILD in ALASKA

hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #109 on: November 08, 2015, 05:52:36 PM »
Check out.... 1953wild.....  On  YouTube....  If it works should be a vid on my build..hit the vid button as well ..my pedgen should show..short vid..  Might give you some ideas...  Hiker71453   Also...?
WILD in ALASKA

electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #110 on: November 08, 2015, 09:16:04 PM »
i would like to see a photo of your coils placed directly over that card board diagram of the magnets.
the stator looks to big

you can reshape those coils a little bit so they aren't so curvy .
squeeze them so the legs are flat and they should sit better over the mags .
the circle the coils make should only be bigger than the circle the mags make by the thickness of the coils .

 

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #111 on: November 09, 2015, 03:08:56 PM »
They seem to be a tad too big, would that make much of a difference or is it okay to leave it like that.

hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #112 on: November 09, 2015, 04:29:09 PM »
Looked back a few posts...you had a good coil shape..ide go back to that ..yeah it's a hassle till you get the hang of it all..or get a cheap ceramic tile cutter and make up some wedge shaped mags..two mags side by side..cut to shape..did that with one of my builds awhile back...
WILD in ALASKA

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #113 on: November 09, 2015, 04:34:28 PM »
So go back to the oval shape coils? I'd be able to have 90+ coils with that shape also so that's a plus.

hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #114 on: November 09, 2015, 10:20:18 PM »
I would....the holes in the coil can be a bit smaller than the mag as well.. If your short on space ..just don't want the mag going over the top or bottom of coil...legs only...good luck..
WILD in ALASKA

electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #115 on: November 09, 2015, 10:42:57 PM »
your dealing with relatively long and narrow mags on a tight dia like 7 1/4" it makes for a wide mag spacing on the outside and narrow spacing on the inside.  it makes for an odd coil shape.
of course adding magnet and changing the shape of the mag would help a great deal.

it's perfectly normal during the winding process for the legs of the coil to bow out .
the coil legs need to be squeezed in  to take the shape of that 60 degree segment of the stator.
you need to loose the white space between the out side of the mags and the inside edge of the coil.
you need to narrow the coils so they can form a smaller dia.
   
 


 

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #116 on: November 10, 2015, 09:13:12 PM »
Today's work, I'd say it's my best yet!

hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #117 on: November 10, 2015, 10:13:16 PM »
Looks great...you could squeeze the bottom of coils ..just a bit..for some extra space..now toss the coils as you have them on a piece of plywood..draw around all the coils..cut out..toss some wax paper underneath..In lay the coils..wire together now or later..add some epoxy to the sides of holes.before Inlay...once all coils are in..drench with epoxy..add wax paper on top..with a scrap piece of plywood on top...add weight...wait untill it sets up...😜😜. Disregard all the above info..if your not going to use plywood...😜
WILD in ALASKA

hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #118 on: November 10, 2015, 10:15:58 PM »
Don't worry about the bottom of your coils if theirs no ply around them..the epoxy will hold them together..
WILD in ALASKA

hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #119 on: November 10, 2015, 10:21:47 PM »
You may have a small center cutout left..if it's big enough to drill a shaft hole in..you could still epoxy that in...dam most I've typed on this dam I phone..and the first draft ..just up and dissapeared..😂
WILD in ALASKA

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #120 on: November 21, 2015, 10:57:44 PM »
Ahh the weekend, an experimenters vacation :P

Thanks to my trusty scroll saw, I was able to get this done in the cooling weather today, brrrrr.



Just have to resize the coil holes and the real fun begins!
Ill keep you posted.

hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #121 on: November 21, 2015, 11:54:44 PM »
Cool...I like a tight fit on the coils..how do you plan to mount your stator...might want to drill mounting holes now...I just used shelf hanger metal rods on mine...with plywood strips down the channel if it's not sturdy enough....
WILD in ALASKA

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #122 on: November 28, 2015, 01:24:53 PM »
Ahh! the site is back! Been waiting anxiously to post pictures haha



So there it is, would it be time to start testing it like that in single phase? There's no places around me that sell three phase bridge rectifiers so I will have to build one myself!


hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #123 on: November 28, 2015, 02:20:31 PM »
Looks great...old car or truck alts have what you need..rects...and if your going single phase..6 mags on the rotor...as you hook up the coils..run some dc currant throu them as you go along..hold a mag in your hand ..and make sure you get push pull as your mag travels over the coils......don't burn your coils out..batt. Charger set to low output works...or car batt.  With a headlight hooked in series on the output wires......yeah your hooked.........have fun.
WILD in ALASKA

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #124 on: December 09, 2015, 07:26:53 PM »
Finally I've had some time to tinker with the generator.
I'm able to light an LED while spinning it with my fingers and it flickers like crazy :D
Unfortunately, the output is rather low, spinning it by hand I've mustered a 3V reading, I'm wondering about how they're setup.

It was my understanding that each coil is placed in an alternating direction ( clock wise, counterclockwise, clock wise....). Is this correct? and do I continue until just two ends of remain, one from each of the two coils side by side that I started with?

hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #125 on: December 10, 2015, 02:28:34 AM »
Run some dc power throu your coils....with the two wires you have...with a batt. Or batt charger...while its hooked up ..hold a mag in your hand and move it over your coils..first coil should eather push or pull.  Then move on to the next coil..it should do the opposite of the first coil..six coils will....pull..push..pull..push..pull..push..if they all comply..you have it right....if one is missed wired just reverse the wires on that coil........if you want three phase..that's going to be a bit different...good luck.....may be its the low rpm...try hooking up a hand drill to spin it up....
WILD in ALASKA

electrondady1

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #126 on: December 10, 2015, 08:37:09 AM »
your configuration, 6 coils and 8 mags is a 3 phase set up. each coil in each phase is wired in series, not reversed.
if you had wired 8 coils / 8 mags it would be single phase and in that case each coil is reversed.


hiker

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #127 on: December 10, 2015, 12:54:44 PM »
6 mags..if single phase....8 for three phase.......
WILD in ALASKA

ronbot

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #128 on: May 08, 2016, 01:38:43 AM »
Old topic, I know... but thought I'd drop a few lines anyway.

About the shape of the coils... it seems nobody has mentioned this to you yet, so I'll try.
The idea is to make them the shape such that one "side" of the coil picks up the magnetic flux from one magnet, while the opposing side of the coil gets its flux from the neighboring OPPOSITE polarity magnet.

Here's why...
When you pass a single wire across the face of a magnet (parallel to the length), that single strand of wire creates a voltage that follows what's called the "Right Hand Rule". Imagine grabbing that wire in the palm of your hand, wrap your fingers around it, then point with your thumb following the direction of the wire... your thumb will indicate the direction of electron flow.

 

Now, consider you have 100 strands (100 coil turns) of wire in your hand = 100 times the electron flow.

Now, let's assume you began with your hand grabbing one side of your coil, positioned such that your thumb was pointing towards the center of your Stator. 
Now if you were to loosen your grip a little, and slide your hand around the coil to the opposite side... which direction is your thumb pointing?  It's pointing to the outside of the Stator, right?

This means on one side of each coil you need a (for example) North pole under it to get the current flowing (for example) counter-clockwise; then to continue the counter-clockwise flow the opposite side of the coil needs a South pole under it. 

This is why it was mentioned that you need the coils formed into a trapezoidal (or triangular) shape, so that it will be intersected by the flux from two neighboring magnets.  This all applied for rectangular and trapezoidal "wedge" shaped magnets.



NOTE: This all assumes CORELESS coils... as in the Axial Flux Coreless Alternators.   (no ferrous core material)

Once you put a core in the coils, the whole design goal changes... and it becomes a totally different machine, with totally different set of design rules... and less applicable to wind turbines and low (non) cogging alternator goals.  (the coil with core then needs to cover the face of just one magnet, because the ferrous core material focuses all the flux up through the coil in one uniform direction - quite the opposite of the coreless design)

Depending on the magnet-to-coil ratio, in many coreless axial flux alternators, adjacent coils will "share" magnets, simultaneously. This is why it was also mentioned that you should keep the sides of the coils shaped "cleaner", less curvy, so that two adjacent coil-sides will fit over each of your rectangular magnets.  In multi-phase alternators, you may not have as much overlap, if any.

The "inner" and "outer" ends of the coils must be past the edges of the magnets... you do not want the perpendicular edges of the coils passing over the magnetic fields... avoid this as much as possible anyway.

Using two magnet-carrying rotors (with magnets in N-S attraction alignment), forces the magnetic flux to cross through the coils between the magnets. Otherwise, with a single magnet rotor, each magnet's flux will be trying to "return" to the closest opposite magnetic pole it can find... be it its own, or of a neighboring magnet.  This is also why ferrous backing plates behind the magnets help... it creates a "shorter return path" for the flux, enhancing the strength of the flux crossing through the coils.  Magnetic flux always seeks the "path of least resistance"... called reluctance.  Air has a very high reluctance, ferrous materials have low reluctance.


FWIW - the first post in the following thread shows a neat "coil" design for a 3-phase axial flux alternator:
http://www.thebackshed.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1484

SparWeb

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #129 on: May 08, 2016, 10:04:33 AM »
Hi again Ron

I think it's simpler to picture the field lines traveling from one magnet face to another, and the coils must simply "capture" all of those lines no matter what shape they are.
If the inside edge of the coil is too far out, or the outside edge is too far in, then the lines from the face of the magnet don't pass through the coil as it goes by, therefore not linking the flux into a voltage-producing electromotive force.  And on the other hand, making the coil too big just leaves too much wire resistance in the stator so it's best to wind a coil that's just as big as the magnet, but no bigger.

Gitrmstr's post from November 10, 2015 is just about right - but I would have pinched the inside ends of the coils to pack them in a little tighter, leaving the rest rectangular.  Won't make much difference at all though!  We haven't heard back from the OP since he mentioned some low output.  Just have to wait and see if he gets back to us with some troubleshooting.
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Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #130 on: May 15, 2016, 09:48:17 PM »
Thank you all for your input, the school season is winding down and the weather's improving which means it's time for more tinkering!

I've been re-assembling my generator to gather some more relevant data and hope to continue my adventures.

I will keep you all posted and look forward to learning even more this time around!

Gitrmstr

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Re: Converting power created from a homemade generator
« Reply #131 on: May 29, 2016, 05:50:36 PM »
Okey dokey, I've managed to free up some time and write down a few results of spinning it at various speeds and these are the results I've come up with:
90 RPM - 1.4 V
120 RPM - 1.9 V
160 RPM - 2.4 V
200 RPM - 3.0 V
It may just be a coincidence, but it seems to be following a linear relationship.

Have I taken my design with the materials I had to near it's peak potential? Would I need to sink lots more money into coils and stronger magnets to make something worthwhile?
Thanks in advance!