Author Topic: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.  (Read 1414 times)

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george65

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Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« on: October 13, 2017, 04:02:54 PM »

Due to the closure of Coal fired power stations and a resulting energy shortage, widespread blackouts, something we haven't had since I was a kid, are predicted for several states this summer.

I would like to set up my Mercedes OM617 Diesel engine to drive a 3 phase alternator so I can be independent of the grid when required.
 I would look at importing a 20Kw gen head from china with AVR and all the fruit but would need to regulate the Diesel engine.
I am confused by the governors and the components needed as I can't find any complete units, rather parts therefore and would be interested in any info and recommendations on what I need to make a system work.   

I'd probably want to run the engine around 2000 rpm and gear it down with a belt drive as I don't think the 3L Diesel would make 40 hp @ 1500 RPM. Then again, also unlikely that I'll need full power out of the thing even with the AC but would want it if I needed it.
Might even have to run it at 2500 rpm.  Friend suggested Turboing the engine which may also help with fuel economy, not that I'm real worried about that.

As I also have over 5Kw of solar on the roof, without going to a large battery bank, is there a low cost way to have the  solar as a stand alone rather than grid tie setup?
I thought I saw something a while back about running a grid tie inverter as a standalone setup but I wasn't well at the time, thought I bookmarked the article/ thread and now can't find it. Even If I could get 3Kw on one phase to run fridges and TV or computer, that may be well worth while.


SparWeb

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2017, 03:58:23 PM »
Quote
"As I also have over 5Kw of solar on the roof, without going to a large battery bank, is there a low cost way to have the  solar as a stand alone rather than grid tie setup?"

Without batteries, that can be difficult.  Ask yourself where is the "inertia" in the system to keep it from running away.  In a diesel generator, the mass of the crank/pistons/flywheel is physical inertia, and the AVR is needed to keep that tame.  If you have a battery-less inverter selling the solar power to the grid, well it's obviously the grid that has the inertia.  If you disconnect that inverter from the grid, it has nothing to "push against" to stabilize its output.  That's another way to look at a battery bank - a way to keep the system stable.  The system works well when the power feeding the system can't overcome the inertia.

3-phases makes this harder to do at low cost.  All of the cheap solutions are single-phase.  Do you have EVERYTHING set up on 3-phase, or have you got some stuff on 230/240 single phase and just a few high power items on 3-phase?

If you did get a battery bank, and had the right kind of inverter, you can make it "the grid" and slave everything to it.  I think an old SW4024 like mine can still be found for a grand.  An XW6048 might be more appropriate but very pricey.  When used with generator support, the rating of the inverter is NOT a bottleneck on the power of the system.  But this all revolves around a set of batteries being the inertia of the system.  A forklift set is all you'd need, but even old ones can be expensive and as you know, PITA to deal with, or you wouldn't have asked.

I have never tried anything like this but, it may be possible to trick a GTI inverter into thinking your generator output is the "grid"...  May need to also convince the GTI inverter to NEVER go into sell-power-to-grid mode, or you'd have a feedback on the generator that could burn it up!  Your generator would need to have a rock-steady output.  If it's not as well behaved as the grid (voltage & timing irregularities) then the GTI would shut itself down with a "grid fault" ,for the same reason it shuts down when the real grid goes down.  Can't predict what else would need to be dealt with.

You'd be balancing several things on the edge of a knife... but the things you post about makes this sound like your kinda fun...
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george65

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2017, 06:30:14 AM »

Thanks for the feedback and info.  Makes perfect sense..... when someone spells it out for you!

The only thing I have here that is 3 phase is the AC. I do actually have a 2 phase stove.  Didn't think 2 phase existed but it does!
Could do without the AC so no big deal and the stove can easily be substituted with the gas burner on the BBQ.

Seems the Solar standalone is Dicy to start and expensive at it's best. A lot of complication to utilize a resource that is all there, but use it in a different application.  Obviously best to have the genny and cheaper to be happy with that.

My other thought was to use some spare panels with an inverter. I'd like to go direct with no batteries but then I'd need a voltage regulator of some sort to bring the 30+V to 24V standard. Best regulator I can find is 550W which is well short of the 2K of my inverter and what I'd like to run.
May as well have a couple of 12V batteries and use some cheap PWM controllers to get the amps.

 Fun is one thing, practicality and cost efficiency is another!  :0)

tanner0441

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2017, 03:16:44 PM »
Hi

I used to have a diesel generator and it relied on the inbuilt governor for speed control as the load went up the engine made a different noise blew a puff of black smoke and the voltage stayed within a volt or two frequency took a momentary dip  and the opposite when the load came off. If the throttle controls the punp direct then I don't see a problem.

Brian

george65

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2017, 04:12:14 PM »

The mercedes engine I want to use is from my first Veg oil powered car.  The guy I bought it off told me it had been rebuilt not long before he got it. I didn't believe him but over the time I owned it I realized to go and start the way it did, it must have been. The car was in very poor condition so I decided to restore it being it was a family ( and everyone elses favourite.) About an hour into working on it I found the thing had really bad rust in the floor and chassis.

Doing mechanical and superficial is one thing, structural is quite another.  I pulled the engine and box and sold the rest for scrap...... Which I'm pretty sure the thing ended up in container and went back to the middle east to be used for a taxi.

Still have the engine and coming from a car, has no governor which is why I would need to fit one to make it suitable for use as a genny.
I can find lots of controllers but not sure what else I need to put with them and I can't seem to find any complete kits that I can bolt on and hook up with all the parts to work with one another. 

dnix71

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2017, 06:37:23 PM »
http://www.instructables.com/id/Generator-Governor/ Here is a failed project from someone who had a failed governor on an existing generator. He went the high-tech route (Arduino).

You want the generator to spin the correct rpm so the frquency out is correct. The gen head must have a correctly functioning AVR so the voltage stays within limits.

After hurricane Andrew in 1992, I went to Perrine with a busted Onan to provide some kind of power to a pastor there. It was 45 days from the storm until poles were replaced and power restored. I blew up a 120v chain saw trying to run it from the overspeeding Onan with the busted governor. The generator had been mounted on the back of a bus and the driver had backed the bus into something that broke off the intake manifold.

The fix in that case was to set the rpm with a throttle wire and use a fixed load (his refrigerator) The voltage was checked manually and the fridge load was low enough the a fixed rpm worked.

In your case, my suggestion is to do what most modern inverter-based generators do. Use the engine to drive high-powered alternators that feed a battery bank. Run your critical loads from the inverter.

http://www.nationsautoelectric.com/tad.html There is a 230 amp one-wire alternator sold here that is designed for diesel trucks. It has a wide pulley. You would need to change the pulley on your engine, then manually set the rpm to a level that is the minimum needed to prevent the voltage from sagging under full load. This is not the most efficent operation, but it will work. 230 amps at 13v is 3kw. You should be able to run most of your home from that.

You don't need a lot of battery. Just a couple of 6v golf cart batteries to make 12v is enough. You aren't running from batteries, but the alternator needs it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pure-Sine-Wave-Inverter-5kw-DC-12V-48V-/142532980067
This seller is ozcart, from Australia, but the inverter is from China. You would need to select the options you want.

george65

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2017, 08:50:22 PM »


I have a bunch of engines that could drive an alternator including my lister which is already set up with 2x80A alts. I could add a 3rd if I wanted but not sure how much more power I would get out of that as the alts seem inefficient and last time I played with it I get the feeling the roughly 2K the alts put out was about the limit of what the engine would drive.
For AC gen heads the normal load is 3Kw on these engines.

For the solar, seems what I really need is a high voltage, high current, buck and boost converter. Something that would take the 300V+ DC my array puts out and convert that back to 24V ( ideally for me) so I could run my inverter(s) or would just function as a standalone.
Amazed there aren't units out there to do this.

Bruce S

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2017, 10:06:22 AM »
george65
With the low end ability of that 617, I won't not bother with a turbo, the 300TD I had was great, but if it hadn't come with the car I would not have bothered.
I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm betting you're going to use WVO. Leave the beauty the way it is.
Since you probably have this on a stand, there was a post on here with a similar issue quite a while back that had pictures, wiring and schema all here.
I thought it was BT Humble. Those might help you.
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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2017, 09:07:39 AM »
Hello George,

My last post on the Changing Metered Phases should perhaps have been on this thread. I meant to say that the Volvo electric window mechanism is actually ideal for a solar panel tilt mechanism. You probably spotted that right away. I checked the motor itself yesterday to get an idea of its needs. It will run on anything from 3 volts, taking about 2 amps. Maximum current on load at 12 volts was around 3 amps. The torque is impressive.

Perhaps an easier candidate for your engine control is a stepper motor out of a printer. The photo is of the paper feed motor and its gearbox from an old Epson printer. It is a really neat package and will work the throttle just fine. Have a look at www.stepperstuff.com The book Easy Step'n by David Benson will get you up and running in no time. It includes circuits and PIC programs. For straightforward speed control there is not really any need to resort to a microprocessor. It just depends what you feel comfortable using.

All the best. Jim

george65

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2017, 03:41:25 AM »
Hi Jim,

Thank for your Idea with that.  I did pick up on what you meant as I couldn't see a window mechanism being precise enough for throttle control.

I have given both these ideas away as being in the too hard and not worth it basket.

I'm a bit jaded and pissed off with the governor thing. I have spent many hours trying to find something suitable and come up empty. I looked at lots of DIY controllers and to be frank, they all looked like dog's breakfasts.  wires everywhere, multiple boards, bits of this and that.... I cannot possibly see how they would be reliable and accurate long term. Once upon a time not so long ago it wouldn't have worried me but since coming here I have got a different outlook. I have got lazier/ more house proud/ less time on my hands/ less energetic/ whatever change of position...  and now just want to do something, do it once, have it work and  and not have to frig around with it any more.

There are a LOT of things that annoy me with this place and not done to my liking.  Really it amounts to the fact I have come from a 100 year old house that was done RIGHT to a 20 yo one that was built as they all are now, as fast and cheap as possible. I had a power outlet on every wall in the other place, there is one per room here. I had over 20 Circuits at the other place, there is half that here. The taps in the yard are all in incontinence places so I am adding to and moving them. There is not enough down pipes so the verandah flooded with the one lot of rain we had.  Things like this are driving me nuts so I don't want anything else that not going to work properly and for a long long time. I have enough to fix already. 

I found loads of commercial controllers but I'm buggered if I can find a complete kit with everything I need.  Again, don't want to spend hours looking for abstract parts to put something together to make it work only to find the bit is incompatible for some reason I didn't forsee etc.  I must be putting in the wrong search terms because I can't find anyone that sell a kit with all the bits I can just hook up to the engine, calibrate and have the thing work.
Surely they must be out there, I just can't seem to find them. I don't have the knowledge to build and program something myself.

I think I'll use one of my little diesel stationary engines, probably the 12 HP Lombardini and get an over size gen or just keep an eye out for a pre built one and use that.  I could use my lister as well but I'd get a lot more out of the other engine and for the amount of times I'll need it.....

Same goes for the solar.  Getting jaded with that too. Wanted to run the water heater direct as well but what a pain in the arse and expense that seems to be to do.  There's nothing I can find to use panels to generate power on the go apart from running the panels into some batteries through a charge controller or several and then use an inverter. I can do that with the engines but i'll be limited to the 2000W  my inverter does and I'll need a 24V alternator or 2 which are exy here.  I have all the 12V internally regulated alts I want but modifying them seems another overly complicated exercise for the outcome.

I have also given up the idea of the variable tilting panels.
I got onto the PVwatts site and run the numbers.  I want most power in the summer.  I will need the AC and that's where there is the most power to be gained anyway. I won't need the air autumn or spring and winter there is much less power available anyway. The difference in annual gain between the " Ideal " all year round tilt and the optimum summer tilt on a 10 KW system can be made up for by adding  -1- extra 250W panel!

I was really surprised after crunching the numbers how little difference the tilt made. For the trouble and complexity, not to mention what I think would end up a less secure installation, for me, the trouble, expense and less peace of mind is just not worth it. The Max Loss in winter having the panels at the summer angle would be 40 KWH a month.

My conclusion was that the weather and a run of cloudy days is likley to have more influence than the tilt angle all year round.

The other thing with going for the summer angle is the panels will be lower which will be better on cloudy days and will make them less vulnerable to high winds  blowing them off the roof.  For extra power in winter I will probably just hook up my induction motor generator  and use that for some extra back feed.

I did find something in looking for a panel tilt mechanisim I can use for something else.
A car Scissor jack turned by a wiper motor.  I want to build a small tipping trailer for my ride on mower and This would be ideal. Hinge the tray at the back, put the jack half way along for extra lift, Couple of Limit Switches..... easy.

Hopefully the next bright Idea I come up with is more within my capabilities or at least I can find info  on how to do it I can follow.   :0)

Harold in CR

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2017, 04:53:49 AM »

 George, ever see a mechanical belt drive governor ? Make a bracket, mount it to the throttle with a push/pull cable and Bob's yer uncle. I have one in Florida and could post it to you for the shipping only.

 We had it rigged to a VW engine on our home built sawmill, until the engine started knocking pretty bad.

XeonPony

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2017, 08:32:21 AM »
the electronics can be as fugly or neat as you want, I have used VFD driven solenoids to drive a throttle be for frequency goes up the signal is inverted and duty cycle drops allowing spring to throttle it down vice versa. or plenty of stepper options build it right the first time and they just work.

Same can be don with a model servo and a 555 control unit to feed it a pwm signal and they can respond fast and accurate too. If this is stationary add flymass to it and makes things even more stable!

Like any thing it depends on the time you put into it, this is inescapable, either big money or big time, chose one and live with it sadly.

I chose time and patience as my currency since I have little money, design it on paper refine it rinse and repeat, then care fully test it on protoboard then solder it up, heat sink any thing that can get warm then pot it! my little frequency driver has been all over Canada up in the bushes for 7 years and still worked till a puppy decided it was a chew toy!

I know the feeling all too well but once you accept it is either time or money it gets easier to swallow the jagged bitter pill

http://www.robotoid.com/appnotes/circuits-servo-control-with-555-timer.html

http://www.circuitstoday.com/f-to-v-converter

https://www.engineersgarage.com/contribution/expert/servo-motor-control-using-555-timer-ic

You use the first 555 as a signal conditioner then replace the 20K pot on the first link with the out put of the second!

Then tune it to keep the servo dead center at 60Hz, if it goes up servo throttles down it goes down it throttle up. you can mechanically invert the movement if needed, or electrically, but once you make the board it will last a very long time as the 555 is a rugged simple chip, and a model servo is a very tuff unit especially if you spend the extra for the metal geared version.

To assemble this test it and tune it providing stuff on hand will be about an hour! or find some one on the forum to make it would take them left! Sadly allot of my stuff was stolen years back and haven't replaced it so I can't do it as of yet!
And now that this all got dug out of memory I think I have my drive controller for the variable pitch wind turbine project!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 09:13:10 AM by XeonPony »
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

george65

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2017, 12:33:17 AM »

Thanks Xeon for the thoughtful reply. It is appreciated.

With this, I'm a bit more in the Pay for it camp now. I am a tight arse and won't pay for a lot of commercial things I see as just over priced but I'm also having to come to grips with the fact My mind is not anything like what it used to be.  A couple of years back I had a bad emotional trauma and to put it best I can, it affected me in a lot of ways with thinking and concentration and basically, it's rendered me a lot more stupid than I used to be. Not that I was ever a genius to start with.

I found the links ( and the sites) you quoted very interesting however and I'll certainly explore those some more.
Having a read through, it seems I should be able to do this with an arduino with the pwm etc built in.  I know that may be over kill but I'm a bit more confident with following something with that than building something from scratch even if I have to add components to the arduino.
Plus the fact I have bought a bit of that stuff and I want to get some use out of it!  :0)

Another nugget for me in your comments was have someone build it for you. That I like the idea of! Yes, pay in cash or time, I'll take the cash option because the brain is struggling with time atm .
If I could find a set  up with all the details such as actuators and sensors I'd need and could get someone to put that together for me, that would be great.
I'd do the same for the Direct water heater as well I wanted just for the hell of it.

I did a deal today for another 4.5 KW of panels, a 5Kw inverter and roof mountings for $750 which I think is pretty good.
That will bring my total  solar panels up to  9.5 KW in 250W panels and 1.6KW in 190W panels.  My inverter collection will be 2x 2KW, 1x 4.8 kw and 1x5Kw. I'll get another couple of 250 panels to make 10KW even and see how I go from there. I would like to over drive them inverters at least 1 KW to get them at full power earlier and later in the day.

I think this should pretty much give me the power I need to have a minimal bill and still have all the comforts I want like AC for heating and cooling.
Going to be some work mounting it all. I think I'll put the commercial mountings on the house and the DIY setup on the shed.

I have read there are boards that one can make up to fool a Grid tie inverter into working as a stand alone but I can't find any circuits or info for them.
Problem seems to be that to hook up to a grid tie inverter you wire in series and run something like 450V but for anon grid inverter you want 24 or 48V.
have yet to see any stand alone High voltage inverters.

For a stand alone generator I was also very interested in Induction motors but again, controllers/ regulators for them are over the top expensive to buy and I can't find any diy schematics to build or have one built myself at a justifiable cost. The IMAG's are great for grid tie but have a lot of problems with stand alone without a controller. I believe they use dump loads which is fine, If I could find something reasonable in cost.

Thanks again for your help. Put me on the path for a few other things I was interested in as well.

george65

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2017, 03:51:48 AM »

 George, ever see a mechanical belt drive governor ?

Nope! Not till you mentioned it and I googled them!

Are they adjustable?  You work on 60 Hz, we work on 50.  I spose you set them for a given engine speed which is all they are about and from there you could have gearing etc.

I would be interested in what you have. I fear postage could be the Killer though. WTF is it with US postage?  I was just looking at US ebay for 24V alternators.
$89 for the alt, $129 Postage Fk Off! That's an insult to a persons intelligence.  I can ( and have) got stuff sent from the UK, Canada, france, china and south Africa for reasonable prices but anything I want to buy from the us......

Anyway, If you like to PM me the price for the unit and look into the postage and let me know I'd be appreciative.

XeonPony

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2017, 06:35:54 AM »
Power generators are simple

The voltage regulator doesn't care about engine speed, it only looks at the voltage, so long as the head is spinning it makes the volts to its set point

The frequency is determined by engine revs, it doesn't look at volts

2 pole = 3600 revs for 60hz
4 pole = 1800 revs for 60 Hz
6 pole =  900 revs so on more poles less spin for given frequency


The govenors only job is to look at the revs and keep it in the defined window, you define that window

PWM is well apt for this as all we need to do is set our servo dead middle at 50hz in your case then if it tries to go out in either direction our servo does the opposite, less things to go side ways on you.

All you need is a simple linear movement and a  couple of range stops (Low end stop = 50hz worth of engine rev no load; High end stop is 50Hz with it loaded to the tits (You'll need allot of heaters for that!)

This is where fly mass helps if you have a fast responding head and engine you can get hunting, I find a cheap and easy way to fix that in stationary systems is to gear/belt down to a big barrel of heavy stuff, wetted sand, concrete then put it in the loop once it is at stable speed it stays there, pull a big load and that inertia smooths out the curve nicely cheaply and simply.

you can do it electronically with hystarisis or programing with delay loops. (I'm rather fond of the big bulky iron heads as they had built in mass!)

https://www.ebay.com/p/Engine-Speed-Governor-Controller-Esd5111-US-SELLER/620813110?iid=162368473817

https://www.ebay.com/p/Eg2000-Universal-Electric-Generator-Governor-Engine-Speed-Controller/2274810031?iid=172895484495

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-VINTAGE-HOOF-PRODUCTS-Co-ENGINE-GOVERNOR-MODEL-GD505-104-P-N-2990-751-8942-/282537221383  < Mechanical

https://www.ebay.com/itm/STURDY-Road-Speed-Control-Engine-Governor-59D-02296-Actuator-w-Cable-89217997/252336227565?hash=item3ac06944ed:g:oTAAAOSwxcRW-eHD&vxp=mtr

ebay search term used:  http://www.ebay.com/bhp/engine-speed-governor

basically all the actuator is, is a high torque servo

but here is a quick and dirty ebay search for off the shelf options for you.

generator governor to retrofit diesel engine (Google search term to use)

as to spelling it is morning on first cup of coffe so I aint apoligising!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 06:45:14 AM by XeonPony »
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

Harold in CR

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2017, 07:41:35 AM »

 George, I need a shipping address from you for pricing. I will get UPS, US Postal and see what we get back. This was given to me so I would pass it along, just pay shipping.

frackers

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2017, 05:38:38 PM »
How about the way the old Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engines control speed. The cooling fan blows on a vane which tries to close the throttle against a spring. As the revs drop, less blow, more throttle and vice versa of course.

Pretty crude but I'm sure that principle could be made more sensitive.

Also, check out your local tractor maintainer. On a tractor, you don't set the throttle, you set the revs.

Robin Down Under (Or Are You Up Over)

XeonPony

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2017, 06:06:50 PM »
How about the way the old Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engines control speed. The cooling fan blows on a vane which tries to close the throttle against a spring. As the revs drop, less blow, more throttle and vice versa of course.

Pretty crude but I'm sure that principle could be made more sensitive.

Also, check out your local tractor maintainer. On a tractor, you don't set the throttle, you set the revs.

No where near sufficient for a diesel making real power sadly, some things just don't scale well, all so gens can be unique in their loading, need a good solid gov for it.
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

george65

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2017, 08:05:56 PM »
Thanks again for the links and explanation Xenon.
I'll try and piece together what I need.
From what I can work out, I just need the controller, the actuator and a speed sensor. Is that the right name for it?
How do they work? Count teeth on a gear or are there different types?


Harold, I am in Camden, Sydney Australia 2570


Frackers, I did think about the vane Governors, Victa's used them on the G3 series carbys for the 125 Engines as well. It would seem to me that getting the spring tension just right could be difficult and not too sure I could set something up that would be sensitive enough ALTHOUGH...... What does an AVR do?
I understand it only controls voltage but is there any amount of frequency rectification?  My impression is that is controlled by the speed of the rotor passing the coils and is fixed by that? Is there anything to control frequency or even " tune" it a few Hz electronically?

The tractor idea sounds like a good one. They may have external governors because I know some engines are in tractors, Trucks, generators and other equipment that requires variable speed and governing with the same engine.   If the other options don't work out, I'll  look into that.

Seems there are a heap of electronic controllers on the market but the bits to go with them seem much less popular to make a working setup.

XeonPony

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2017, 06:03:21 AM »
The alternator is the speed sensor! Hz = Poles + RPM

F = rpm*pole/120
P = 120*f/N


so they will take a input from one of the legs.

So all you need is the actuator and position resister and controller or a pre-made linear servo with feed back.

not hard to make either

AVR Ignores frequency completely it only looks at voltage! and controls the field coil.

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-functions-of-AVR-in-a-generator

https://www.electricneutron.com/generator-2/basic-of-automatic-voltage-regulator/

https://www.theautomationstore.com/poles-rpm/

« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 06:39:09 AM by XeonPony »
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Harold in CR

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2017, 09:44:02 AM »
 George, $86.00 US Postal Service and no charge for the governor.  I learn a lot from your ideas and doing projects, also from all the advice given to you. That is more than enough payment.

 6-10 days delivery to you.

DamonHD

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2017, 10:52:51 AM »
Hey, that would be good news if it can happen!

Rgds

Damon

george65

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2017, 04:25:46 PM »
George, $86.00 US Postal Service and no charge for the governor.  I learn a lot from your ideas and doing projects, also from all the advice given to you. That is more than enough payment.

 6-10 days delivery to you.

Harold,

Bit lost for words mate. That is extremely generous of you. I am humbled.
I'm sure you would like to see how it turns out but I can tell you now that is something I won't get to for 3 months or so. I am working  to get things done for our early  family Christmas dinner then I have my daughters 21st and trying to do some house renos before that.   After that I have to go back for some more minor surgery.  I would not want you  waiting to see how the thing got put to use and be dissapointed.

That being OK, I would really be most appreciative of having the unit as it would solve a big part of the puzzle to make the project a reality.
You can either let me know how to send you the money for the postage or when I go into town today I'll go to the post office and see if you can send it COD. I know you can do that here but I'm not sure from OS. Whatever you prefer is fine by me.

Thank you again for this. Very unexpected and I am touched. Hope I can repay you in some way some time.

SparWeb

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2017, 10:23:24 PM »
Been here long enough to have seen a lot of giving & receiving.  One more thing I love about this site.
Bravo!
No one believes the theory except the one who developed it.  Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.

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Harold in CR

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Re: Engine Govenor and stand alone solar reccomendations.
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2017, 12:00:20 PM »
George65
 Urgent PM sent !!!