Author Topic: Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades  (Read 795 times)

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DaveP68

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Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades
« on: October 27, 2017, 01:01:31 AM »
Have a set of GOE 222 blades that I purchase recently and plan to use them on a new wind turbine build.

Can anyone on here let me know what the expected TSR is for 3x GOE 222 blades?

As I'm new here can't post any photos of them as yet.
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XeonPony

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Re: Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2017, 09:27:23 AM »
what is the length of them? I plan on making a set of 4 footers from 2*6 and a set of Hugh Piggott style blade based off his book. on a F&P smart drive motor so would be very interested in the responses to your thread.
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SparWeb

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Re: Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2017, 12:20:13 PM »
Hi again.
It's been a while since I crunched the numbers on TSR.
IIRC, the TSR on any wind turbine when it's operating is variable, but the pitch of the blades should be set to an optimum where you want the peak efficiency to happen (light wind, strong wind, something in the middle...)
Also, TSR can be matched up directly with the angle of attack of the blade, and the AoA is the angle made by the incoming wind and the air flow as the blade turns.  Get the AoA to match the TSR angle and you have hit the optimum. 

One thing to watch out for on a GOE 222 is that it has a lot of camber.  Setting the AoA by the leading edge/trailing edge angle is not zero lift.  The GOE has neutral lift at an angle well below that - several degrees.  Yes: here it is
http://www.airfoildb.com/airfoils/962
-8.5 degrees

So in a way that makes it easier for you:  Mounting it "flat" to the oncoming wind you already have an incidence angle of about 8 or 9 degrees, which will translates into a TSR of.... maybe 5?

See if my guess is right on Alton Moore's page:  http://www.alton-moore.net/wind_calculations.html
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System spec: 135w BP multicrystalline panels, regulated by Xantrex C40, DIY 8ft diameter wind turbine, regulated by Tri-Star TS60, 800AH x 24V AGM Battery, Xantrex SW4024

DaveP68

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Re: Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2017, 07:40:57 PM »
what is the length of them? I plan on making a set of 4 footers from 2*6 and a set of Hugh Piggott style blade based off his book. on a F&P smart drive motor so would be very interested in the responses to your thread.

My GOE 222 blades are 1.3 m (4'3) long so hub radius is going to be 0.2 m total diameter 3 m (9'10).

Here's a photo for scale showing 3x 1 m blades mounted on a hub with a single GOE 222 blade along side.


I recommend using the 36 pole copper stator with the stronger black 48 magnet rotor cap. There are 5 different versions of F&P stators out there. What do you have access too?

David
There are realities that if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow!

DaveP68

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Re: Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2017, 07:53:21 PM »
Hi again.
It's been a while since I crunched the numbers on TSR.
IIRC, the TSR on any wind turbine when it's operating is variable, but the pitch of the blades should be set to an optimum where you want the peak efficiency to happen (light wind, strong wind, something in the middle...)
Also, TSR can be matched up directly with the angle of attack of the blade, and the AoA is the angle made by the incoming wind and the air flow as the blade turns.  Get the AoA to match the TSR angle and you have hit the optimum. 

One thing to watch out for on a GOE 222 is that it has a lot of camber.  Setting the AoA by the leading edge/trailing edge angle is not zero lift.  The GOE has neutral lift at an angle well below that - several degrees.  Yes: here it is
http://www.airfoildb.com/airfoils/962
-8.5 degrees

So in a way that makes it easier for you:  Mounting it "flat" to the oncoming wind you already have an incidence angle of about 8 or 9 degrees, which will translates into a TSR of.... maybe 5?

See if my guess is right on Alton Moore's page:  http://www.alton-moore.net/wind_calculations.html

Hi  SparWeb

Good stuff and tried out the online calculator very useful to plug some numbers into.

My guess is for 3x GOE 222 blades the TSR should be from 5 to 5.5 as have been able to observe how Fred's (flc1) GOE 222 blades are performing on his 4 blade wind turbine. My calculations are rough as not able to get accurate wind speed readings from Fred vs the operating RPM range. From what I can work out the TSR on his wind turbine is just over 4 (I think 4.25) with 4x GOE 222 blades (his blades are identical to mine).

David
There are realities that if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow!

XeonPony

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Re: Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2017, 07:57:03 PM »
http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php/topic,149330.0.html

Seems he was up on what to get so benefited from his research but no matter what I'll be ahead Vs the Air X that I had, it would only make usable power at about the same point my roof comes off

next thing I need to collect a few gear boxes to make an inline axial spur gear drive.

Idea was to let it run at its native voltage then use  Auto-transformers to knock it down to what ever ideal would be to a mppt controller or just lock it in to the battery voltage then use pwm on the high tension side to good old NiChrom dump load. that way the dump load is direct to the unit so leas things to go wrong!
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

DaveP68

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Re: Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2017, 01:11:53 AM »
That is a 36 pole copper stator with the a black rotor cap which is the best stator that F&P ever made. The other 4 versions have various disadvantages compared to this one. They are factory decogged so are well suited to wind turbines.

I've done hundreds hours of testing with these stators and compiled comprehensive data tables of their performance into different loads from 60 through to 2000 RPM range.

An example of the tables I've made of the power output potential vs RPM.


This is a stator rewired as a 6x 2p Delta configuration.


This a stator wired in Delta without any other modification.


Here is a stator being run into a test load with a 1030 W output at 912 RPM.


Got lots more data on these F&P stators, so just ask and chances are I'll be able to give an answer.
There are realities that if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow!

stofanel

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Re: Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2017, 12:46:22 PM »
Have a set of GOE 222 blades that I purchase recently and plan to use them on a new wind turbine build.

Can anyone on here let me know what the expected TSR is for 3x GOE 222 blades?

As I'm new here can't post any photos of them as yet.

Optimum TSR really depends on the combination of airfoil profile, twist and chord distributions. Well designed blades usually peak at about 7 or 8 TSR.

If you have twist and chord data I can crunch the numbers for you.

XeonPony

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Re: Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2017, 05:55:45 PM »
the goe 222 has no twist it is a straight blade profile the whole way through, makes them very easy to make.
Ignorance is not bliss, You may not know there is a semie behind you but you'll still be a hood ornimant!

Nothing fails like prayer, Two hands clasped in work will achieve more in a minute then a billion will in a melenia in prayer. In other words go out and do some real good by helping!

DaveP68

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Re: Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2017, 04:24:32 AM »
This video explains TSR in a different way, when related to the operation of Aircraft high bypass turbo fan jet engines.

This Genius Invention Could Transform Jet Engines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aPIEsnKb6o

Thought this may be of interest to some on here, even though not directly related to the main topic.
There are realities that if you do not accept, will lead to frustration because you will be spending time on wrong assumptions and the results cannot follow!

ChrisOlson

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Re: Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2017, 01:55:09 PM »
I ran GOE222's for several years from Dave at Royal Wind & Solar. Those were cut at 10 deg pitch and ran at ideal TSR of 5.7. They run quite happily anywhere from 4.5 to 6.5, however.

Adriaan Kragten

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Re: Tip speed ratio of GOE 222 blades
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2017, 06:00:44 AM »
My report KD 35 gives the design procedure for the blades of horizontal axis wind turbines (see www.kdwindturbines.nl at the menu KD-reports). The theory in this report gives the variation of the chord and the blade angle as function of the local radius if the rotor diameter, the design tip speed ratio, the number of blades and the airfoil are chosen. This theory can also be used to find the optimum tip speed ratio of existing blades. A problem might be that an existing blade has a certain variation of the chord and the blade twist and the only thing you can vary is the blade angle at the blade root.

You have to measure the chords for about six stations and you also have to measure the difference in blade angle in between the blade tip and the other stations, so this gives you the blade twist. You also have to measure the airfoil itself and find out which airfoil is used. Next you make a certain choice for the number of blades and the design tip speed ratio and make the design calculations for that choice. You compare the results of the calculations with your blades. If your calculated blades have larger chords than what you have found for your existing blades you reduce the design tip speed ratio and do the design calculations again. Probably after two or three steps you will find a design tip speed ratio for which the variation of the chords are about the same as for your existing blades. Next you check if the calculated blade twist is about the same as for your blades. The blade twist might differ but finally for your existing blades, you chose a blade angle close to the tip which is the same as what you found for the calculated rotor.

If your existing blades have an increasing chord at decreasing radius, you have to use the method as given in chapter 5.4.1 of KD 35. If your existing blades have a constant chord, you have to use the method as given in chapter 5.4.2 of KD 35.