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Wind / Re: My "new to me" old Jacobs 110 volt 3000 watt wind generator
« Last post by jenkinswt on November 20, 2017, 05:53:31 PM »
I've came to that same conclusion today messing around with it all. I noticed once the tail is straight it doesn't take alot of force on the chain to hold it there. Also the blade furling only has to extend the springs about 3/4". I think on the tower I am going to use a turnbuckle and make a different strap so I can tighten it up. I ordered a blocking diode, hand winch and cable. I'm sure I am overthinking some of this but want to get it right.

I'll probably post a diary with lots of pictures of everything when I'm done.
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Wind / Re: My "new to me" old Jacobs 110 volt 3000 watt wind generator
« Last post by Harold in CR on November 20, 2017, 03:50:16 PM »

 Can't help about the tower. The springs are very stiff. Centrifugal force is what they have to overcome from "throwing" the blades off their shafts in higher winds. When I copied the same system, I bought "field tiller" springs from a farm supply and cut them down to a shorter length.  They worked very well keeping the RPM's to around 220 to keep my 1800 RPM alternator at correct speed using a 10 to 1 gearbox. I would guess they were 3/8" thick or so round stock.You can't even bend them sideways by hand.

 I tested without a load in high winds and the top speed did not get excessive. Same for the tail spring. It's unreal what the wind can do at 30 MPH high off the ground. We mounted a "Dakota Wind and Sun" copy of a Jacobs on our own tower top. I would suggest all top braces would be same length and all solidly connected, as long as the gen sits level as possible so it doesn't yaw to a low side at dead wind conditions.
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Other / Re: Spitballing a car engine/multi-alternator large-ish generator
« Last post by george65 on November 19, 2017, 05:07:01 PM »

Anyone with any thoughts?

Few things.......

Highly doubt the engine would be doing 20 Hp at 1000 rpm.  It's a lot lower than you think. I have seen engines being Dynoed and at Idle  even high power engines, petrol and diesel might be doing 6-12 Hp.  Other thing is, if you are going to be just driving some alts, gear the things right up with BIG pulleys.

This will accomplish 2 things:
First, it will increase the load which is a good thing. 2nd, it will spin the alt in a more efficient range.  1000 Rpm is idle and the output from the alt will be less than half capacity. Large output alts are no so much designed for their max output but rather to get the amps at Idle up where a lot of smaller alts would be at the upper end of their curve.

The thing about diesels working hard is largely outdated internet Myth.  If one looks at industrial engines, they are tuned to the job they are purposed for. These days it's electronic but it can also be done on mechanical engines just by winding the fuel down.
Industrial engines are purposefully de tuned for economy and moreso, Longevity.
The DIY'ers are all talking about working the engines hard, The industrial users are putting in oversize engines so they are NOT working hard and they get the longest life possible.

If you are using car alts as standard, the alternators are efficient enough but the charging control is poor.  If you can get an alt like a Lecce Nevile and an EXTERNAL controller ( few different ones available and are not expensive) you can pretty much set the alt to whatever output you want. 12, 24, 36 or 48V. Just dial it up.
You will also get multi stage charging and efficiency as good as anything else at a much cheaper price.

Using the alts with the OEM built in charging, I calculate about a 60% inefficiency. IE, 1Kw of power out takes about 1.6Kw of motive power. Most of my 6 Hp Diesels from the lister to the China Diesels and Lombardini will be working hard with 2x 80A, 12V alts.  I don't think they would drive 3 alts to full power without being overloaded and smoking badly which is not what you want.

I am looking at setting up my 5 Cyl 3.0L OM 617 Merc engine to a large 240V Generator and running some smaller 12/24V alts off the thing as well.  Even a 20Kw 3 phase 240V alt will still be under loading this engine which is fine as I can just wind back the fuel screw so there is no excess fueling at all. As I will be running Veg oil, I will also be running water injection. I have been doing this a LONG time now and as usual, the internet fears and myths don't  come near reality.
I would not run a diesel on any fuel without water injection. It solves so many problems and keeps diesel running at top performance  as well as adding a fraction of power..... which on my Veg fueled truck is always fun no matter how well it's dialed up. Add 50% Methanol......Wheeee!

As far as keeping the alts cool,  Pffft! Another internet myth conjured up by those with a lot of imagination but no experience.
Running a car alt in a stationary application, IE, not in an engine bay that can easily excede 100oC, the things are cruising and never breaking a sweat. Sure, they will get hot but the fact the cooling air is probably at least 80oc cooler makes a huge difference.
Like the difference between running a semi trailer up a mountain in the dessert and in the snow. Still going to be working and getting warm but totally different environments and effects on the machinery.

If you are supplying the same power from the alts as the inverter is pulling, the load on the battery is nil.
I have done this with 6Ah battery's driving 2Kw inverter and had no problems. IF the loaded voltage coming from the alts is at a decent voltage for the battery, it won't be loaded.  If it pulls down hard, then the battery will "float" at that loaded voltage.  IF one is pulling less than the alts output, the alts should level their voltage out at the proper battery float voltage.
 I used 2x 80A Mitsubishi enclosed alternators which I have used extensively.  I have found them to be virtually indestructible.  I have run them direct to the inverter for many hours with NO battery's at all which folklore says will kill them.  I have done the same with Bosch Alts and also had no problems.
Because I get the alts for nothing, I have TRIED to break them and so far failed.  They are not anywhere near as fragile as people always seem to make out.

I have an interest in engine generated power and a lot of the feeling is use the heat and take the power as a bonus.
If you are using bought fuel, this can be important. If you are using Veg / alternative fuel, Maybe not so much.
Exhaust is supposed to be a significant amount of heat but many feel recovery from exhaust is not worth the time and effort.  Myself, I think there is not much to making a tube in tube type HE, even if it were to direct the exhaust through an old gas water heater with the burner removed for pre heating.

 Again, depends on what efficiency you are motivated to recover.



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Wind / Re: My "new to me" old Jacobs 110 volt 3000 watt wind generator
« Last post by jenkinswt on November 19, 2017, 02:42:36 PM »
Okay its been a little while since an update, although I did have a separate post about the tower. I've been trying to get all the little details finished up. I have assembled the 48' portion of the tower, have the generator, tail, etc. all together on the stub tower, painted, greased, reworked the slip ring assembly with a new cord, made a pvc junction box. This Friday I hope to have a crane come if the weather cooperates and will get the whole assembly up there. I have a few different questions if anyone can help.

This has the springs for the blade furling, 3 of them and they all 3 seem really stiff. Is this normal? I can't even tell if I can pull one apart by hand so I don't see how they will work. Does anyone know if there is a certain spring rate? I figured old springs would get softer, not stiffer but I am starting to wonder if they should be replaced some how.

Another spring issue I am wondering is the long spring for the tail. Even with the tail sideways with the safety chain holding it I couldn't stretch it enough by hand to hook it up. I had to take the safety chain off and hook it up and then it took a second person to help turn the tail straight enough to hook the safety chain. I have enough of the original pull chain to go through the stub tower but with the force it appears to take to turn this, I am wondering about switching to cable completely since I will need to get enough to reach a hand winch anyways.

On the tower, its a 48' 3 leg angle iron tower original with the wind generator. + the 5' stub tower. The very top section is 8' with diagonal braces from 40-44' and 44'-48' the top 44-48' diagonal braces do not have a adjustable bracket and one strap appears to have some slop in it. There was one strap missing and I made a new one but its not the one that looks loose. I am starting to wonder if the one that was missing was adjustable and that one strap would maybe tension the other 5 up? I've looked around everywhere and haven't found another tower to compare it to.

As far as charging my 48 volt bank with the 140 volt output I have a midnite classic 150 that I currently use with the solar that I will borrow and see how it works, might need to go to a midnite 200 anyways.  I was going to use a blocking diode in between the generator and controller. I don't know if the furling on the Jacobs works good enough to not have a dump load. I think I can use a ssr for diversion from the classic to turn on heating elements or a heater. Not sure if this is a good enough of an approach or not. I will probably watch it like a hawk also and shut it down before any real bad winds hit until I am comfortable with it. I'm just about finished painting the blades, I had to completely fiberglass them. If I had to do it over again with not having heat in my shed I would have just carved new wooden blades, which I still might down the road.



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Other / Re: Spitballing a car engine/multi-alternator large-ish generator
« Last post by XeonPony on November 19, 2017, 09:26:38 AM »
At the logging camp we drove engineers nuts by saying we had a near 100% efficient gen set lol, but we left out the part of all the heat recovery we rigged up!

a thermal static bypas valve for the coolant system was used, it routed the water through old iron radiator blocks in the trailers, if no heat was needed and temps got high it would dump the excess through the radiator.

Exhaust was run through a 45gallon drum with cooper pipe and filled with sand to make a thermal storage / water preheater for the shower house, it used on demand water heaters so that preheating made world of difference!

So the gen when running heated the trailers and shower water and provided the power
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Other / Re: Spitballing a car engine/multi-alternator large-ish generator
« Last post by electrondady1 on November 19, 2017, 07:53:11 AM »
i hate the smell of diesel but a four cylinder  engine can do a lot more than just make  electricity. once up to temp it could heat your home. run hydraulic  systems. you can experiment with water injection. hydrogen injection . build a water jacket on the exhaust system to heat your home .   pump a bit of air into the exhaust system to reignite the exhaust gas and create a secondary burn chamber for hot water or steam. with a decent muffler and shroud you would barely hear it . not like some little Briggs and Stratton waking up the neighborhood.

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Heating / Re: Water heater economy
« Last post by frackers on November 19, 2017, 02:38:44 AM »
PV water heating beats evacuated tubes anywhere there is freezing potential at  prices today.
I'd agree with that - I put my tubes in 8 years ago, just before PV prices got affordable here.  If I was doing it again, I'd use all PV and avoid the overheating, the frost protection and the new tank that cost way too much.
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Heating / Re: Water heater economy
« Last post by OperaHouse on November 18, 2017, 11:42:48 PM »
There is theoretical and practical. Far more are constrained by the site.  My solar panels are not even on my property and by necessity lie almost flat although I am at mid 40's latitude. Unless you are the unibomber living out in the middle of nowhere, site presentation will be an overriding factor. Aside from being slightly larger and everyone being scared as hell of electronics, PV water heating beats evacuated tubes anywhere there is freezing potential at  prices today.
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Heating / Re: Water heater economy
« Last post by MattM on November 18, 2017, 06:41:19 PM »
If gains are 30% for tracking configurations versus stationary ones, it sounds more worthwhile for off grid types than grid tie types.  Off grid types are dependent on the energy and 30% in gains makes it worthwhile, especially the part of the year where output is severely limited.  But grid tie users would simply want to be focused for best performance at the peak usage hours and not muck with the array.

If someone opts for vacuum tube solar water heating, does it need to be tracked to get maximum output most of the time?  PV technology isn't real practical to boost with mirrors, but vacuum tubes should love them.  It would seem one could simply maximize output by mounting them at optimal pitch, yaw, and roll angles for wintertime, and supplementation via mirrors.
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Wind / Re: Report KD 644 about 8-pole PM-generator available
« Last post by Adriaan Kragten on November 18, 2017, 04:45:41 PM »
I think that this generator principle also works for a cast iron housing but an aluminium housing is most standard for small asynchronous motors in Europe. The disadvantage of a cast iron housing is that more of the magnetic flux will flow through the housing but as the distance in between the housing and the magnets of the armature is rather large, the losses in the housing due to eddy currents will probably be still low enough.

The material for the stator body can be any material if it is non metal, so it should guide no magnetic flux nor an electric current. In The Netherlands, Delrin is very generally available. It is one of the brands of POM (polyoxymethylene). Another brand is Ertalon. The main advantage of POM is that it keeps its measures.

The advantage of an 8-pole armature is that the stator winding is rather simple. For bigger housings you can use larger magnets or you can increase the pole number but the pole number must be devidable by four for a 2-layers winding. So the next pole number is 12 en then the stator will have 18 coils.
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