Author Topic: Grizzly machine  (Read 2598 times)

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SmoggyTurnip

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Grizzly machine
« on: February 09, 2006, 04:41:47 PM »
I am starting a new diary hoping that my pic sizing will work in here.  I have been calling my project the grizzly machine because of a comment someone made in my previous diary.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 04:41:47 PM by (unknown) »

SmoggyTurnip

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Rotor ruination
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2006, 09:43:38 AM »
If you are the kind of person that takes pleasure from other's misfortune then this should make your day :).

I spent all day sunday getting my rotors ready for paint.  I used a file to round off all the sharp edges on the steel - that took a long time because of those spokes.  Then I degreased  the rotor and used a plywood template to place the magnets. I used super glue to hold them all down.  Then I used some wire to hang the rotor from the ceiling and sprayed on two part epoxy primer.  It was late at night so I went straight to bed thinking how great it looked and felt as excited as a kid on Christmas eve hoping to wake up and have my first shinny new rotor.  I guess I wasn't a very good boy this year because this is what I woke up to monday morning:






« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 09:43:38 AM by SmoggyTurnip »

SmoggyTurnip

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Re: Rotor ruination
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2006, 09:46:29 AM »
There must be some metal in this paint as you can see a very distinct line in the paint exactly halfway between the magnets.  This line showed up between every set of magnets.

I left the rotor as it was and went to work.  When I came home in the evening the paint still wasn't dry after even 20 hours.  
I kept going over everything in my head to try and understand what went wrong - Did I prepare the surface properly,  was the paint defective?
I read the instructions on the paint again and again - drying time is 1 hour at 70 degrees F and 2 hours if less than 20 degrees. do not use if shop temp is below 50 degrees.

Well I painted this in my basement and the temp was about 60 degrees at the time.

I wiped of the paint with a rag and it came of very easily in about 90 percent of the rotor but the paint did dry a bit in some places - mostly inbetween the magnets so I used paint stripper to get that off.

Then I decided I would sandblast the whole thing to make a better surface but I was worried about damaging the magnets.

I took a spare magnet and  gave it a light blasting with the sand to see what would happen and it roughed up the surface a bit but was OK.

It was late at night again and I was sandblasting outside where it was dark and I had poor lighting and the face shield I had was as old as dirt, scratched up alot and hard to see through so I did not see the damage to the magnets untill it was too late:

Here is the result:


« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 09:46:29 AM by SmoggyTurnip »

SmoggyTurnip

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Re: Rotor ruination
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2006, 09:49:37 AM »
Sorry about the poor quaility of the pic - it is hard to see the problem - maybe I will get a better pic tonight.
The finish on the magnet chipped off a bit on the corner of a few magnets - most were OK but 1 is pretty bad. - The magnet itself is still OK - just some of the finish came off.

I do have 4 extra magnets and could replace the worst ones but I can't think of any way to get the magnets off the rotors.  Any ideas?


Not everything is going bad - I did get some work done on the frame:




Maybe someone could tell me how to post a link tom my pics so I don't have to include them in my posts.  These were all saved as 4 inch wide.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 09:49:37 AM by SmoggyTurnip »

SmoggyTurnip

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Glue question
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2006, 09:58:24 AM »
When I had my magnets mounted on my rotor in the plywood template without any glue on them I took a piece of aluminum and passed it over the magnets to see if I could feel the force of the eddy currents.  I was quite impressed with the force that was produced with just moving the aluminum sheet by hand.  I removed the magnets and then added the super glue and put them back on.  I tried the aluminum test again and I didn't think the force was a great as before.  It could be my imagination because it is a very subjective test.  I thought maybe the glue was keeping the magnets farther from the rotor and introducing a "glue gap" into the magnetic circuit.  I just put a couple of drops of glue on the rotor befor I attached the magnet.  Maybe I should be brushing it on or something. Has anyone else ever tested the effect the glue has on the magnetic circuit?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 09:58:24 AM by SmoggyTurnip »

willib

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Re: Grizzly machine
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2006, 12:58:21 PM »


« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 12:58:21 PM by willib »
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Norm

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for wide pics
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2006, 01:03:46 PM »
  a lot of people don't realize that if someone

post a reply to one that has posted a wide pic

most of us don't have wide screen ...surround

sound, etc.

  So when you type in the comment box and hit return before it automatically jumps down to the next line it won't end up like this.

 and we won't have to scroll back and forth at

least on the text.

               Thanks...

              ( :>) Norm.

Editor: I can appreciate

your job... Dang!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 01:03:46 PM by Norm »

willib

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Re: Grizzly machine
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2006, 01:05:20 PM »
as for the pic size , see that "size % " in red ? in the link below?

you can change that before posting.


http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/2965/pic_size.GIF


hit preview to check size then decrease as necessary..

« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 01:05:20 PM by willib »
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electrondady1

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Re: Glue question
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2006, 01:14:09 PM »
smoggy , thats tough luck on your paint job . epoxy can be tricky to use. it's obvious the hardener didn't kick in. i've rolled  on literaly hundreds of gallons of benni moore two part epoxy  but last month had  the same problem with some two part bath tub stuff i got at the hardware store. it used to come as a 50/50 mixture but most now is a litre of hardener with three litres of resin. its difficult to get the proper ratio if you only want to make a small amount. also, i assume  you reduced the paint with solvent in order to spray, that might have  had  an effect on the chemical process at work.  it used to be recomended that the two parts be mixed and then left to sit in the can for an hr. or two before it was applied.        . i can't tell from your photo .are the mags badly damaged?        . as far as the glue goes, i glued down about 100 little hard hard drive mags last night . changed my mind on the lay out this morning  and poped them off the rotor with a hammer and chisel. the rotors had been coated with a special water based rust converting primer . it turns iron oxide into iron sulfide . well the crazy glue pulled the primer right off the steel  i'm back on track now but it was scary for a while.  
« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 01:14:09 PM by electrondady1 »

willib

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Re: Grizzly machine
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2006, 01:21:07 PM »
oops , lol sorry about that first post.


To create a link to you pics ->

delete everything in front of the quotes , and everything after the quotes, including the quotes..

so your link will start with http .....and end with .jpg  


the pic below is 40% BTW  




30%




8% lol , you get the idea..



« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 01:21:07 PM by willib »
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kitno455

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Re: Grizzly machine
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2006, 01:41:39 PM »
yes, but that is absolutely useless to those of us on dialup, when the actual graphic is huge, all you are doing is making it look smaller on the screen. the file size is the same.


PLEASE- learn to use the image editing software that came with your camera or OS (if you've got a real one) and shrink your graphics down to around 400 pixels wide or less, BEFORE you upload them. then when you put them in your post, take out the silly 80% thing that scoop puts in there, and all will be right with the world.


allan

« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 01:41:39 PM by kitno455 »

SmoggyTurnip

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Re: Glue question
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2006, 02:04:04 PM »
The paint I used required a 1 to 1 mix.  And the instructions required a 20 minute wait time.  I waited 30 minutes.  As for the magnet damage - the magnets themselvs were not damaged - only the protective coating on them.  The worst damage was on one magnet - just in the corner - a triangle of coating was ripped off - about .25 inches or so for 1 side of the triangle if you know what i mean.  The others had small peices removed and on some the coating just bubbled up a bit like small blisters.  I am thinking about trying ro remove them but it worries me - just like I was worried when I started sandblasting.  Should I try ??? Or should I just leave as is and cover it up with the epoxy resin ??? hmmm....
« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 02:04:04 PM by SmoggyTurnip »

Experimental

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Re: Grizzly machine
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2006, 03:00:55 PM »
Hey smoggy,

   Sorry to hear of your problems -- but ,I may have some answers for you !!

   Epoxy is one of my favorite products, but thru the years, it has also given me a lot of pain !!

  My first question is -- how old was the epoxy paint ??

  The stuff has a definite "shelf life", after which, it can give you a lot of problems -- one of the most noticable being -- the damned stuff, will either cure to soon or take forever ...   Most of the time, it will take a long time to cure !!

   Another thing I think I saw on your parts, was some spots, indicating, contamination !!  Perhaps some grease residue, causing a thinning, or "fish eye", on the parts -- I clean, with laquer thinner, or MEK, before painting, but some substances, just don,t want to come off..

   One other thing you might try in the future -- use glass beads in your blast cabinet, insted of sand -- they are, just what the name implies -- spherical, round beads !!   These clean, without doing damage to the parts -- but use at or below 80PSI, or the beads are shattered into dust !!(NAPA auto parts stores)

   As for removeing the magnets -- I think you could put a wood block, against the mags you want to remove and smack it with a hammer -- as you did not imbed them in resin, they should come off real easy !!   In fact, most of us imbed them , almost to the top surface, and some, even run a layer of fibreglass cloth over them as they occationally come loose !! (check out Dan B,s rotors)

   Going back to the epoxy paint -- I normally paint several thin coats, then put them under my heater, with warm air blowing on them -- go have lunch, and put some more on after the first has cured a bit -- the stuff likes to run !!

   I think your problem though, was "old" epoxy !!

   Other than that, I didn,t read your post to thoroughly, but I noted your use of aluminum to check for eddy currents -- perhaps I didn,t understand, or thououghly read, but aluminum is not magnetic, so would not react to magnitism !!???

   Anyway, I wish you better luck in the future, and hope something I wrote, might help .. Bill H.....
« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 03:00:55 PM by Experimental »

electrondady1

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Re: Glue question
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2006, 03:26:38 PM »
 i think you should remove any loose material and blisteres. make up another batch  of epoxy acording to instructions and just brush it on a test piece   keep it warm but not hot. see if it kicks.  
« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 03:26:38 PM by electrondady1 »

ghurd

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Re: Grizzly machine
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2006, 03:31:09 PM »
Hi Bill,

"Other than that, I didn,t read your post to thoroughly, but I noted your use of aluminum to check for eddy currents -- perhaps I didn,t understand, or thououghly read, but aluminum is not magnetic, so would not react to magnitism !!???"


Eddy currents will be produced in Al or Cu or SS or iron or brass or...

Charging current in the copper coils is simply eddy current that has no other choice but to go through the load or battery.

Eddy current is electron flow that runs in circles, and is not harvested to power the load.

Sort of like what would happen if the coils were wound with bare copper wire. Or if the output was shorted. Sort of.


G-

« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 03:31:09 PM by ghurd »
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willib

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Re: Grizzly machine
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2006, 04:53:45 PM »
sorry i didnt know the file size was the same...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2006, 04:53:45 PM by willib »
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SmoggyTurnip

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Re: Glue question
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2006, 07:29:26 AM »
Thats one of the things I was thinking about doing.  I am also thinking about putting the epoxy resin on before the paint.  I am not sure how the paint or the resin would react with the bare magnets.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2006, 07:29:26 AM by SmoggyTurnip »

SmoggyTurnip

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Fall zone
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2006, 01:25:59 PM »
I still haven't decided where I will put this thing.


How close to your house would you be

comfortable putting a 18 foot wind turbine

on a 50 foot high tower?

« Last Edit: February 23, 2006, 01:25:59 PM by SmoggyTurnip »