Author Topic: tower building  (Read 4217 times)

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johnnyo

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tower building
« on: March 09, 2006, 01:45:52 AM »
 I'm going to build a 60' tower with out guy wires. I think it can be done. I've already bought most all the materials I need, 2-20'x5",1-24'x4",1-24'x3" wellcasing pipe,oh and 12-24'pieces of 3/4" sucker rod,for bracing. I plan on a cement base 4'x4' or 5'x5' 4 feet deep. A hinge at the top of one of the 5" pipes. The second 5" pipe  along side the first,and hinged to the first  then 4"pipe then 3" pipe, with a stub of 1 1/2" pipe to mount the 10' windgenerator on. I've built a jib pole like this and used it to lift 500# trusses on my pole barn. using the sucker rod for bridge bracing, they will not even flex.  only one problem , the 5"x20' pipe fastened in the concrete will only have two braces permantly fastened [welded] and the other two will have to be bolted after tower is raised.  has any one tried this? I'll let every one know it works.



« Last Edit: March 09, 2006, 01:45:52 AM by (unknown) »

12AX7

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Re: tower building
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2006, 08:19:39 PM »
Hello Johnnyo


I've never made a tower,   however..  better than 30 years ago I "erected" a 40ft. free standing Rohn (heavy duty)  I used a 4x4x4ft cement base.


Over the years..   I put up many a different antennas..  (sometimes in weather that made my wife think I was crazy)  


With some of the bigger "arrays"..  there were times during high winds.. where I stood with my feet on the base..  and looked up the tower leg and watched it sway. Many a time I could feel the "vibration"  with my feet.  



  1. x4x4 chunk of concrete...   and I had thoughts going through my head..  shoulda dug a bigger hole.
  2. ft?   whats planned to sit on the top?


I think ya should dig a bigger hole.  
« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 08:19:39 PM by 12AX7 »

Countryboy

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Re: tower building
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2006, 08:40:16 PM »
Hi Johnny.


It will work, for a while.  That stub of 1.5 inch pipe at the top is gonna be WEAK though.


A gust of wind will put a lot more stress on a pole, than a steady pressure, such as lifting a truss.


I think you will find the welds on the sucker rod start cracking and breaking, if that 1 1/2 in stub doesn't bend first.  The next thing you know, a gust of wind will come along, and the weakest point on your tower will crumple like tinfoil.


A 4X4X4 base is 2.4 cubic yards of concrete.  5X5X4 is 3.7 yards of concrete.  At $60 a cu yard, you're going to have a few bucks in a base.


Guy wires are probably going to be your cheapest component in building a tower.  Why try to save a few bucks at the risk of losing a lot of money?


Don't get me wrong.  You CAN build a strong free standing durable tower - but you can build a tower just as durable and strong, for a fraction of the price, if you use guy wires.


My advice would be to stick with what we know works.  The Dans already did up a section on towers.  http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_wind_towers.html


If you want to experiment with your own free standing tower, I'd recommend you start out small.  Build a 20 or 30 footer.  Find your weak points and reinforce them.  Then build a taller tower - maybe a 40 footer.  Go from there.  Don't jump right in building a 60 foot tower.  The higher it is, the more the forces will be magnified.

« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 08:40:16 PM by Countryboy »

hiker

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Re: tower building
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2006, 09:25:33 PM »
try a wood powerline pole[telephonepole]..

are neighbor years ago used one for his huge shortwave ant.

bury it good and deep in concrete...

« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 09:25:33 PM by hiker »
WILD in ALASKA

johnnyo

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Re: tower building
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2006, 08:17:32 AM »
 I'm the type of guy that, you tell me it [my idea] wont work i'll make it work. I just dont want to contend with the guy wires. comments like 5'x5' of concrete and forsight about the 1 1/2" stub for setting the windgenerator on top of, that it might be weak, thease commets are wanted and appreciated. I'm building a Hugh Piggot design 10' machine which will be my first, but I dont think this machine will give me enough power. I havent bought the inverter or batteries yet. I plan on 24V system using large fork truck batteries and 3000w trace inverter. pure sine,or mod. sign, dont know yet. I'll probably build a 17' machine for the extra power and keep the 10' one for a back up.  I'll be living off the grid. power lines are not any where close,dont need a power bill anyway i'll be retired and have plenty of time to piddle with things and build prodjects that I never had time for. getting back to the tower, welds wont break if welded right. one consern of mine is that the tower won't flex any at all. also getting off the subject, in the area this will be erected,lighting is a problem. on top of a hill in south centrel mo. oh just wanted you to know the reason for 60' tower is to get above the tree tops. all commets appreciated johnnyo
« Last Edit: March 09, 2006, 08:17:32 AM by johnnyo »

Countryboy

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Re: tower building
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2006, 01:37:27 PM »
Hi Johnny,


You're correct.  Most good welds don't break.  The metal breaks right beside the weld.  That is because weld and the metal you are welding have slightly different compositions, and different strength and flexibility.  Stresses find the weakest point.


If you really are dead set on having a free standing tower, I'd recommend a BIG BEEFY tower.  No tip-up tower.  See if you can get your hands on the design plans for the commercial towers for the monster wind turbines.  Build a lighthouse, and stick the windmill on top.


If you're trying to get above the trees, there are two options.  Make your tower taller, or make the trees shorter.  A chainsaw is probably going to be easier to handle in the long run than a monster tower.  Being on the top of a hill, you should get decent winds without a tall tower if you knock a few trees down.


If you insist upon building the tower you designed just so you can say you did it, please buy a backup generator and keep plently of fuel on hand.  It's now a matter of if it will fail, it is just a matter of when.  (See threads about Dan's 17 footer evidence of that.)  Your wife will greatly appreciate you having a backup generator for when you have the power failure.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2006, 01:37:27 PM by Countryboy »

amiklic1

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Re: tower building
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2006, 09:12:07 PM »
I thought that Hugh Piggot uses at lest 2" (60.3mm) pipe for the top of the tower. And, if you calculate the fact that if we double the diameter (with the same wall thickness), we get 16 times the strength of a pipe, it's wise to do so. It means that if we enlarge the pipe for 30%, we get more than five times the strength.


Also, be careful with constructing the tower. In my area, I saw many such constructions failed. It's not always a bad weld, it's difference in material structure, temperature expanding etc. And, mostly those micro-vibrations that are hard noticeable, but very destructive.


The option with one pipe fixed in the earth, in concrete, is good (supposed the base is OK), but I wouldn't go with just the bolts when connecting the main tower pipe and the fixed one. A kind of a bushing thru the both pipes is recommended, for stronger connection. And tight connection, to eliminate vibrations.


Vibrations are like wood worms. They go all around ant searching a place where they can make a damage.


I prefer lattice freestanding tower, because I can find the material for free. Right now i'm building two sections 20' each. It's straight-width tower, with lot of bolts and profiles, oversized bit. (That's the main reason I'm happy).


Anyway, good luck with your project. And remember: Any anchor-diameter is better than none. It's better to put the guy wires on the 3m diameter from the tower base, than to go without them.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2006, 09:12:07 PM by amiklic1 »

johnnyo

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Re: tower building
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2006, 06:55:00 PM »
yes your right about the 2" pipe. and yes I will use a pipe through the base pipe for a spacer, also I intended to fill the bace pipe with concrete to help stiffen it. The main tower pipe will be bolted with a through bolt of 1" size and when stood up bolted at the bottom to the base pipe. I'll leave enough room for the wires to come out. do you think that all 4 supports for the base pole should be bolted? vibration purposes? I'm sure I wont have any problem with the tower bending, I have a tendency to over build at times,also over weld.,you see I welded Caterpillar's for 17 years. If you ever worked there you'd know what i'm talking about. gotta get back to work,thanks for the commonts,and fofgive my spelling    johnnyo
« Last Edit: March 10, 2006, 06:55:00 PM by johnnyo »

vassile52

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Re: tower building
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2016, 07:43:19 AM »
Hi Johnny,

I'm a welder and I would like to build a same tower.

May I have more details,maybe pictures about yours tower,please?

I'm living in Calgary,Alberta,Canada.

frackers

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Re: tower building
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2016, 08:49:24 PM »
I just dont want to contend with the guy wires. comments like 5'x5' of concrete and forsight about the 1 1/2" stub for setting the windgenerator on top of, that it might be weak, thease commets are wanted and appreciated. I'm building a Hugh Piggot design 10' machine which will be my first, but I dont think this machine will give me enough power.

I have run a 10' (3m)  Piggott turbine for 8 years and have bent 2 2" (50mm) irrigation pipe stubs.
The first was due to blade strike when the whole generator (all 50kg if it!) lifted 300mm off the stub in a big gust.


The second was due to a lack of guys allowing the pole to whip back and forth, eventually bending the 3" pipe below the stub as well as the stub itself.



As you can see the bend was the same distance below the guys as the turbine head is above them.

I've just about given up in wind now that solar PV is a reasonable price  - a couple of 250w panels produces more that the turbine (which managed nearly 2MWhrs in 8 years) and I don't have to worry about flying bits of blade
hitting the llamas!!
Robin Down Under (Or Are You Up Over)

vassile52

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Re: tower building
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2016, 09:18:55 PM »
Hi!
I'm Vassile52 from Calgary,AB,CA.
I like yours tower.
I'm a structural welder.
I would like to build a similar tower.
May I have some details,pse?
Have a good weekend!

Vasile  yo5bzz@gmail.com

Mary B

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Re: tower building
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2016, 05:31:14 PM »
Similar style towers are used all over SW MN to hold TV antennas. And many of them are bent at the top from antenna loading...

keithturtle

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Re: tower building
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2016, 01:05:23 AM »
I'm the type of guy that, you tell me it [my idea] wont work i'll make it work.
Your determination is admirable.  I would share the words of an American novelist who spoke to it: "Good decisions come from experience. Experience comes from making bad decisions." - Mark Twain.

Learn well

Turtle
soli deo gloria

Neil

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Re: tower building
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2016, 08:37:31 AM »
Any thoughts on this.


Neil

JW

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Re: tower building
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2016, 07:12:18 PM »
Wow, that's great of all the hard work behind the scenes I never could verify the PDF attachment function was working.

JW

Mary B

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Re: tower building
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2016, 03:02:07 PM »
I had this crank up tower on the factory tilt base with a similar lifting rig



The lifting tubes were 4"x6" and 1/4 inch wall, and they bent about 4 inches forward when lifting the load I had on the tower! I finally had to put a back guy that we anchored to a truck when I lowered the tower. Scary watching that weight tilt down and it was only 23 feet tall cranked down!

Any thoughts on this.


Neil

Neil

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Re: tower building
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2016, 05:41:20 AM »
There is a company in the states that sell these, but they are not as tall as this one , if you bent 4x6x1/4 wall, I think i'll put this on the back burner, nice place you got there.


Neil

Mary B

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Re: tower building
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2016, 02:24:49 PM »
Not my place lol! I live on the MN prairie. Parts of my house were built in 1880!