Author Topic: wood gas/home made charcoal  (Read 10104 times)

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A6D9

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wood gas/home made charcoal
« on: March 19, 2009, 06:09:13 PM »
I have a wood/coal furnace in ym house for my main supply of heat.


I burn aboud 5 cord of hardwood a year in it a season.


I have allot of dead softwood on my lot.  Was wondering what would my best way to get heat from the softwood for winter heating:

-just burn it in the furnace as per nomal and just mix it with the hardwood, say 1 log soft to every 3 hard.

-put the softwood in a barrel and make charcoal from it and use the woodgas to self heat the barrel durign the summer months and use the charcoal in my furnace

-cut the softwood in small chunks an do TomW's method of puttign it in a paintcan and just tossing the can in the furnace on a bed of coals, of coruse with holes in the can for the gas to burn and then once it is done..let cool and then burn charcoal in furnace.


I just don;t wana waste all that wood.  I'm aware it won;t be great heat like a good old hardwood log, but every hardwood log i save form burnign is anothe rlog i do not need to get for next season.


Also if it's any help, I plan on having a few bonfires this summer so i could do the barrel idea then and use the softwood for those to get the gassing started.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 06:09:13 PM by (unknown) »

nick1234

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Re: wood gas/home made charcoal
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2009, 05:09:45 PM »
you say you have allot of dead soft wood converting it to charcoal is good in the fact that charcoal will not rot and will not be a home for bugs and can be saved for years

nick
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 05:09:45 PM by nick1234 »

GaryGary

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Re: wood gas/home made charcoal
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2009, 07:27:37 PM »
Hi,

This:

http://www.builditsolar.com/References/woodhvrs.htm


Lists Oak at 25 million BTU per cord

and Jack Pine at 17.


Does not seem like that much difference?

Does it really produce that much less heat?


Gary

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 07:27:37 PM by GaryGary »

scottsAI

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Re: wood gas/home made charcoal
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2009, 07:37:49 PM »
GaryGary,


My brother heated with wood for a few years, things were good when it was free, when that ran out he told me the cost... I suggested he try that furnace he installed years ago. Was cheaper!


Now to your question. Not necessary the BTU it's the burn time.

Brother said the double stacked 30 gallon wood stove would turn cherry red with soft wood, he would burn up (house way too hot) for a while then freeze at night, fire out. Hardwood burned all night making things nice and comfy!


Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 07:37:49 PM by scottsAI »

TAH

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Re: wood gas/home made charcoal
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2009, 09:37:20 PM »
After only having the experience of heating with wood since the early 70's I can only offer this. We burned every type of wood that grows around here. Any draft controlled furnace will burn dry wood of any kind at the rate you adjust it to. There is a little more ash from cotton wood than oak. My favorite wood for years has been elm because the dutch elm disease kills lose all their bark and make nice clean firewood. Making charcoal sounds like a strange way to waste time and btus.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 09:37:20 PM by TAH »

TomW

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Why add another unnecessary process?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2009, 07:03:25 AM »
TAH;


I agree right down the line.


Cutting, hauling, stacking and feeding the stove is already a LOT of work. I wouldn't even consider another processing step. I only recently went from a pile under a tarp to stacking in a roofed open sided wood shed.


I have been burning wood for heat since the '60's myself.


Certainly not interested in adding complexity and effort to the process.


I do make charcoal to use for cooking on the grill and for melting metal but never for heating.


Just from here.


Tom

« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 07:03:25 AM by TomW »

A6D9

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Re: Why add another unnecessary process?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2009, 01:31:52 PM »
i guess the reason why i thought this was i could get more heat from charcoal and then as i was makign it get heat as well.


so get heat from every stick of wood twice as aposed to just once..but is it safe to assuem the heat i would get is simply half the heat two times...for a total of 1 unit..wheer as if i just burn it as wood it'll be 1 unit?


hope that made sence...it makes sence in my head...lol

« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 01:31:52 PM by A6D9 »

TomW

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Re: Why add another unnecessary process?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2009, 02:36:23 PM »
A6;


Well, I doubt you get "more" heat from making charcoal. The charcoal itself is pretty pure fuel so it burns pretty clean and hot. You drive off a lot of volatiles making it, too and that is lost heat unless you use it.


Maybe look into some kind of gasifier / heater combo that burns what wood you have more efficiently right in the furnace / stove?


There used to be a stove maker that build a stove that supposedly does this. More or less. A Vermont Downdrafter was one I recall from the 70's or so and the 2 folks I knew that had them liked them and felt they used very little wood compared to the old pot belly stoves they replaced. They draw exhaust gases thru the bed of coals before venting and supposedly burning the fuel more completely.


Just an idea.


Tom

« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 02:36:23 PM by TomW »

TAH

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Re: Why add another unnecessary process?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2009, 09:01:34 AM »
There are several gasifier wood furnaces available. Some have very high efficiency but they need a very dry and consistant fuel to work well without lots of cleaning or adjustments. The reason the super low efficiency outdoor boilers work well for people is that you can burn almost anything in them. They end up pushing 60% or more of the btu's up the stack as heat or smoke.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2009, 09:01:34 AM by TAH »

A6D9

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Re: Why add another unnecessary process?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2009, 06:12:31 AM »
very good info...thank you all for stearing me in the right direction.  :)


very appreciative.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2009, 06:12:31 AM by A6D9 »

SteveCH

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Re: wood gas/home made charcoal
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2009, 01:41:11 PM »
I've been heating totally with wood since 1974, plus heating our water and cooking. Guess there're a few of us around still.


The charcoal thing is something I've never thought of. Interesting. I would council experimenting with it prior to rigging up a big project and conversion to using it. See whether you really like it better than just plain wood.


Most of the problems and disappointments I've seen and witnessed with those who are unhappy using wood to heat come from failure to make it a regular part of the household deal and/or not having a decent enough stove. Those "double barrel" and other very thin metal stoves heat up cherry red and hot quickly, burn up their load quickly, and cool off quickly. That is the burn up or freeze situation. You cannot stack them up with wood or they'll overheat and that's a frightening [and dangerous] deal. It is difficult to manage a junky stove, not at all difficult in a well-designed one. That does not mean, necessarily, a huge money outlay. I have two stoves, one that cost me $160 new [30 yr. ago] and one that cost me $2500. The cheaper of those works great and has been in use every winter since 1975. [The more expensive one incorporates an oven on top, so....]


The household thing is more making wood burning a normal and regular partof...living in your house. Some people hate it, others, like us, really like it. We have no other source of heat up here in the mntns at 8500 ft. except during sunny winter days our greenhouse pumps some hot air into the house.


Helps that we have plenty of woods around here and my chainsaws and I can get all our wood in, just labor.


Anyhow, I hope you post your results and conclusions re: charcoal here on the forum once you have some.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 01:41:11 PM by SteveCH »

REdiculous

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Re: wood gas/home made charcoal
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2010, 10:25:13 AM »
My brother just built a small gasifier for school. He made his out of two, 1 gallon paint cans and a couple short pieces of copper pipe. What I noticed with his gasifier is that it was hard to get a consistent flow of good gas. The connecting pipe and condenser(?) on my brother's gasifier were just getting too hot. The flame off the gasifier would reach about 8 inches long and then it'd blow itself out. Pouring cold water over the piping and condenser every so often fixed it ok. Anyway...


Softwoods make excellent kindling so that's how we use ours.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2010, 10:25:13 AM by REdiculous »
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wildcrafter

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Re: Why add another unnecessary process?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2010, 06:09:56 PM »
i noticed that my neighbor and i both installed wood heat the same year i choose indoor stove he put in outdoor burner.  Our houses are close in size and yet he uses 4 to 5 times the wood i do.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 06:09:56 PM by wildcrafter »

WoodstoveWizard

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Re: wood gas/home made charcoal
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2010, 02:21:12 PM »
Hi,


You say you have "a lot" of dead softwood.


I can think of a few ways to make use of it if you don't want to just let if lay.  I agree with other posters here that making charcoal is simply adding another unnecessary step between cutting it and burning it, for dubious benefits.


When you make charcoal you burn off about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the mass, keeping the remaining charcoal as fuel.  It takes a sophisticated setup to try and extract useful heat from the charcoal burner itself as these things can run very hot indeed and, to be worth bothering with, need to take a large load of fuel initially. Think in the region of a tonne of cut logs as feed stuff - otherwise you'll be making charcoal every day for a month to get through the stuff.


Charcoal does have added value as a cooking fuel though, so you could perhaps find a local market for it and buy in hardwood logs (you'd have to research the economics of it in your area). Alternatively you could make charcoal for your own cooking use - it can be a lovely fuel to cook with, especially in summer for outdoor BBQs.


The other technique you might be interested in was pioneered by a Frenchman, Jean Pain - he effectively created a giant hot compost heap from primarily ligneous (woody) brush material. In the centre of this he put a sealed vessel with water and chipped woody material, and through the layers of the heap he ran heavy duty plastic pipe.


The compost heap provided hot water for his home for 12 months or so and, from the vessel in the centre, he collected, pressurised and stored methane gas which he used to fuel his car and run the kitchen stoves.


When it was finished and no longer supplying useful heat the compost heap was dismantled and spread on his vegetable beds and garden.


Wikipedia has an article brief biographical article on him and his techniques- Jean Pain - 1930 to 1981


If you grow some of your own food you might also be interested in making biochar from some of the timber - Biochar is essentially charcoal, but pulverised down to a powder and added to soil to improve fertility. I've been making small quantities of it for a while to add to our vegetable beds. The theory is that it helps prevent leeching of nutrients and minerals from the soil, and improves soil microorganism diversity.


This page is how I make biochar from woody scraps in our garden.


Just a few thoughts for what you might like to do with some of that woody material, if you don't want to burn it directly in your home.


Mike

« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 02:21:12 PM by WoodstoveWizard »