Author Topic: 12V receptacles  (Read 11713 times)

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No Eden

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12V receptacles
« on: April 08, 2005, 07:57:59 PM »
 

  Help appreciated on this one.

  I've done a bunch of searches and tried contacting manufacturers.  I can't even get a lead on where to locate a 12 volt receptacle for wall mounting in my home.  (Not the automotive type).  What are people doing to pipe and access 12volts around the house?


  Thanks.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 07:57:59 PM by (unknown) »

K3CZ

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2005, 02:24:19 PM »
No Eden -

The Code approves the use of 240v - 20 amp utility outlets for this purpose, as long as there are no 240 volt appliances in use in the facility.

Me myself, I wanted to use old-style crowfoot(three flat blades in a triangular arrangement) 15amp 240 volt outlets for this purpose, but nobody supplies them any more, and they are no longer on the list of approved outlet configurations.

                                     Van     K3CZ
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 02:24:19 PM by K3CZ »

nothing to lose

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2005, 05:41:27 PM »
If that is truely the case then we need to say heck with approved and set our own standards here that maybe others will follow and adapt as a standard.


It is totally stupid for any type of standard AC outlet to be approved for DC use but not have one for just DC only approved or coded.

 What happens if you buy some neat new appliance that is 220Vac that has that plug, or you accidently plug a DC device into an outlet wired to 220AC by mistake.


And saying ONLY if no 240 is not the correct answer here!


"The Code approves the use of 240v - 20 amp utility outlets for this purpose, as long as there are no 240 volt appliances in use in the facility."


Bull hockey on that, I will have my 220/240 window airconditionare or dryer etc.. if I want it and I won't remove any 12Vdc to do it either.


Perhaps for the time being use those then and paint them red or yellow to make them questionable, but we certainly need an odd ball blade socket for this purpose and prohibit it from being used for AC at all. Our own standard outlet standards need to be set.


Perhaps color coded also or a set blade pattern for each normal voltage that may be used, like 12V, 24V etc..


In such a way if I take my 24V device to your house I don't just plug it into a 12V or 240 socket by mistake, and the same if you came to my house. You won't plug in your 12V device to my 24V sockets.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 05:41:27 PM by nothing to lose »

ghurd

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2005, 06:03:06 PM »
That brings me back to the wire.

Code wire- can't get it. Period.

And 12-2 UF-B is not to code.

I can run 660 (?)VAC at 20 amps in it, bury it, hang it from roof to roof... whatever I want.

But I can't run 1 amp at 12VDC in it. No. It is not good enough for that.


You gotta do what you gotta do.


That's what I do.


G-

« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 06:03:06 PM by ghurd »
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nanotech

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2005, 06:42:24 PM »
I'm going over to my local Hardware Hanks tomorrow, I'll take a look to see what they have.


Now just gotta remember to take my camera....

« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 06:42:24 PM by nanotech »

jimjjnn

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2005, 12:04:27 AM »
Can you get the Europe style of outlets and plugs?

3 round pins on the plug
« Last Edit: April 09, 2005, 12:04:27 AM by jimjjnn »

John II

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2005, 06:27:04 AM »
You can't wire a Alternative Energy home to code ( my personal opinion ,) and they know this. When you scrounge for expensive heavy copper cables, and the code forbids it because it's the wrong color etc.... it is ridiculous.


In our home I use the two flat spade 15amp rated 220v ac outlets for 12v fused at about 20 to 25 amps for DC. Has worked great for the last 15 years. Fuses blow, and outlets are always fine.


I use a (cluster of 5) 1/4" mono phone jacks and a 10amp fuse holder mounted onto a metal outlet plate for smaller items in the home. Purchase the Red handled 1/4" phono plugs to attach to tv's radios and lamps etc. They are definitely good up to 10 amps dc and a lot more compact and safe as compared to a ridiculous cigarette lighter plug (unless you are a chain smoker.) Once again these have worked well over the 15 year period that I have had them installed. This gives you 5 outlets per plate.


As usual, it's probably not up to the nonsensical code standards, But I use custom made welder panels and welder jacks in the home for high power current usages. They are compact, you can connect 2 ga or 4 ga ultra flex welder cable to them. Fuse accordingly, I usually use a in line 100amp fuse.


I'm also now running 120vdc around the shop and home. Once again what does the electrical code say about that ? You'll have to tell me as It's bound to be a lot of nonsense. I use standard 15 amp 115v outlets with bright red flourescent tape covering the outlet plate to denote them as DC.


I wouldn't think of using any other jack for 120vdc as all of my industrial brush type shop power tools are rated ac/dc at 120v and I can plug them right into the DC jacks. If I choose to run them on standard ac I can do that as well. I'm not going to cut the plugs off of all of them to please some bureaucrat.


The industry needs to get practical about custom DC jacks for homes, and instead of turning it into a money making spree like everything else. They need to think of the environment and the welfare of the country, and leave the greed behind. Something I expect they can't bring themselves to do.


Personal Opinions only.


:>)


John II

« Last Edit: April 09, 2005, 06:27:04 AM by John II »

richhagen

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2005, 06:56:29 AM »
I made a rig to plug in a 12 volt appliance to my batteries.  The device had an AC adapter that pluged in to a, hmm, I think it was 5mm by 2.1mm jack, a kind of common size for dc stuff.  I found a socket for it at Radio Shack and mounted it in a blank cover.  The device had the center positive and the outer edge negative.  I wired the jack in the cover the same.  The device and the socket had the same jacks.  Then I made a double ended cable to connect them.  The cord was reversable. Worked well for small devices, but I do not know what the maximum rating is.  I had a 5 amp inline fuse for it at the battery.  Rich
« Last Edit: April 09, 2005, 06:56:29 AM by richhagen »
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Bryan1

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2005, 02:39:17 PM »
I'm in the process of setting up my shed for 12 volt, 240 volt and 415 volt 3 phase, anyway on the 12 volt side of it I'm running 12 volt cfcl fluro's directly off a 12 volt battery. I've also setup a few cigarette lighter plugs for use when the current won't exceed 5 amps, for larger loads I'm just going to use heavy binding posts as sum of my motors will draw in excess of 20 amps at times. Depending on what you want to use will determine the sockets required, just a little tip take a look at the audiofile range of connectors they are usually gold plated, fused and look pretty neat aswell.


Just a Thought Bryan

« Last Edit: April 09, 2005, 02:39:17 PM by Bryan1 »

John II

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2005, 05:52:48 PM »
For a while I tried the largest special DC power jacks, but I found the plugs so delicate to solder to, that half the time I broke the lugs off just trying to get a lamp cord attached. That's why I went to the mono 1/4" phono jacks... really heavy duty robust strong terminals to solder to. You are correct about the quality of the plugs and jacks on no matter what type of plugs you go with... It pays to buy really good quality. No cheap stuff made out of light tin.


John II

« Last Edit: April 09, 2005, 05:52:48 PM by John II »

drysider

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2005, 08:59:46 AM »
I know a lot of readers are not in the US, but the following is from the NEC in the Solar Installation section:


* Standard building-wire cables and wiring methods can be used [300-1(a)].


Building codes seem to take a lot of abuse here, but in fact they are, for the most part, mostly common sense. I have found inspectors to be a good source of information and to be willing to work with the homeowner as long as they can see you are trying to work with them.


Pat

« Last Edit: April 11, 2005, 08:59:46 AM by drysider »

CarlB

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2005, 01:04:46 PM »
I haven't tried these yet, but they seem to be catching on in the emergency response circles for a standardized way to supply 12VDC. The manufacturer is Anderson Power Products, the product is the PowerPole:


http://www.andersonpower.com/


Pre-fab outlets and cables can be had here:


http://www.westmountainradio.com


Regards,


Carl B.

« Last Edit: April 11, 2005, 01:04:46 PM by CarlB »

georgeodjungle

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2005, 09:12:17 PM »
how about the kind for winch's or golf cart,fork lift charging plugs.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2005, 09:12:17 PM by georgeodjungle »

commanda

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2005, 01:10:38 AM »
http://www.12volt.com.au/General%20Htmls/webcat2003/plugs2.html


These guys are in Australia.

If nothing else, it gives you a picture of what you want that you can show when you go to your local electrical contractors supply store. Here in Australia that's TLE or John R Turk's.


Amanda

« Last Edit: June 06, 2005, 01:10:38 AM by commanda »

mkseps

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2005, 03:22:33 PM »
« Last Edit: June 27, 2005, 03:22:33 PM by mkseps »

commanda

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2005, 06:44:50 PM »
I bought some of these from my local John R Turks electrical suppliers here in Australia. They are manufactured by Clipsal Australia, and are designed for 32 volts at 15 amps. On their site they say ac only. I'm going to use them for 24 volts dc.









Amanda

« Last Edit: June 27, 2005, 06:44:50 PM by commanda »

coldspot

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2010, 08:49:13 AM »
My $0.02

 I use the plug and cable ends from computers and electronics.
keeps people from plugging standard plugs into the three straight computer type.
 I also like to use the top and the left, not the left and right pins.
 But, my shed isn't NEC or any other safe type but I also keep it locked and
loop back spy cam safe.
 Nobody but myself could ever get hurt there so I feel safer.

 $0.02
$0.02

dnix71

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2010, 10:28:16 AM »
http://homepower.com/article/?file=HP124_pg18_Mailbox_2

Some NEC comments here. They seem to imply the a/c code is made to make it easy to distinguish grounded, and current carrying wires. In a dc system the negative side might not be grounded to prevent lightning strikes from causing the negative side to float up.

On an ac system a white wire can never carry current and a current carrying wire can be any color except green. On a dc circuit red and black would make sense unless the negative side is grounded. Then it should be red/white. If you used standard auto round power plugs and sockets with fuse ratings on them I don't see how there would be any basis for a complaint.

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2010, 01:02:49 PM »
http://homepower.com/article/?file=HP124_pg18_Mailbox_2

Some NEC comments here.  ...

On an ac system a white wire can never carry current and a current carrying wire can be any color except green.

Shouldn't that be "a white wire can never supply a non-ground-like VOLTAGE"?

I.e. it's used for neutrals, can and should carry lots of current, but should be at essentially ground potential except for voltage drop from the currents it sinks or those that pass through the neutral wiring between the box it connects and something closer to the ground bond. and never intentionally at a high potential, such as those supplied by cheap inverters for part of the cycle.

hydrosun

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Re: 12V receptacles
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2010, 02:56:03 PM »
I would guess the reason the plugs are for AC only is to limit the spark when plugging and unplugging under load. It's the same reason that solar panel connectors have warning labels on them not to connect under load.  The plugs will work fine for smaller loads.
 I've used 220 style plugs with the blades inline instead of parallel with a third prong for ground for 12 volts in homes and it passed inspection. AEE solar sold them for years for that purpose.