Hydro in Costa Rica

[keng]

I just bought a small farm in remote Costa Rica. It has a spring on it that supplies water to 100 households through a community water system all gravity feed. There is a concrete box enclosing the spring that is about 5 feet tall and 20 feet deep and 30 feet wide. There are 5, 4 inch PVC pipes coming out of the box only one of then is used for the water supply the other 4 create a brook. The spring has a constant roar to it. I have not been able to establish the flow rate but I believe it is quite high and constant, with this schetchy info could I get some suggestions as what kind of system I should begin researching. My home is going to be between 1500 and 2000 feet away and I figure I will figure out what my load will be dependent on what I can afford to produce.

[ghurd]

You also need to know the 'head', the height between where the water is, and where the gennerator will be.

Are the 4 overflow pipes flowing full? Half full (2" of water, 2" of air)? Maybe how deep is the water in the overflow pipes? (not that I could figure it out, but somebody here can)

Sounds like a lot of water and a good head.

G-

[keng]

I believe I could place the plant about 8 to 10 feet below the tank. the 4 other 4 inch pipes are running at full flow there is a lot of water here to make use of. there is about a 200 foot drop from the ridge to the spring and on the otherside of the ridge you can hear roar of the water flowing in the concrete box a lot of presure coming out of the pipes

[Nando]

Up to now, your information does not inform to anyone what you could do or get.

You need first to measure the water you are going to use, it seems the pipes feeding the brook or stream is your source( you need to measure the water volume) then you need to measure the head or the drop of the stream down to the place were you can place the hydro turbine.

Knowing these two facts then I can calculate the power available and, as well, direct you to the least expensive and most effective hydro electric generating system.

Also, is the land where the Spring is, yours ?.

What are the rights for the land and water ?.

How much water does the community uses ?.

What % is used by the community

What is the distance from the spring box to the entrance to the community.

What is the head for the community pipe.

Do you speak Spanish? I do, you can email direct nando37-at-comcast-dot-net

Regards

Nando

[keng]

1st I'd like you guys for responding and any insight into this is a great help. Before buying this property I hadn't thought about this much but now I keep saying hydro is the way to go But I am realy ignorant but handy and I can build just about anything I put my mind to.

That being said let me try to describe the set up a little better. The spring is coming straight out of the ground. The five 4 inch pipes come out of the bottom of the box. There is a lid on the top of the box and you can hear the water just below the lid. I do not know what a 4 inch pipe allows in flow but what ever that is I have five of them one for the water system and four that are just flowing. I believe the head is just under five feet and I can locate the generator another 5 feet lower so possibly as much as ten foot head( I guess) so there is a volume of a 5ft tall by 20ft by 30ft volume of water squirting out of five, 4 inch pipes at a constant rate.

I do own the land the spring is on. I am learning spanish. The spring box to the commuity is about 1/2 mile down hill. I am not sure what the laws are as far as water rights but I figure I'm not taking water just using some of the potential of it and still allowing it flow.

I keep thinking that since it is a constant flow that if it were possible I would like to have power without batteries. I don't know the financial reality of a project like this. If possible I thought it would be nice to offer power to my neighbors as well. @ other households. So my dreams range from small to large.

[healerenergy]

Will your house be uphill or down hill from the spring head.

The farther down hill you can locate the power plant and the larger the pipe to it the more pressure you will get. You might also be able to set up staged powerplant setups with catch basins. Look up the kind of plants avalable some of them have charts to help you calculate.

[ghurd]

The lower the generator the better.  There is a LOT more power 20' down the hill than 10'.  A LOT LOT LOT more power 30' than 10'.  Supplying the neighborhood with power is a task I would not want.

Did you read all of this?

http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_hydro.html

A couple cheap gennys, stray parts, and a couple controls.  Good to go.  For small power at least.

I think a couple batteries would make it easier to control.  More power available when it is needed, without having to always make and control all the power you might need for a few minutes a day.  Like if you need 1200 watt for 90 seconds for the microwave each morning for a cup of tea, without batteries you need a place to get rid of, or control that 1200 watts for 23 hours 58 minutes and 30 seconds a day.

It also means everything, from the genny to the wire to the controlls, can be smaller.  A 1200w system can be turned into a 50w system.  50w is easier and cheaper.

Just 2 cents.

G-

[keng]

Thanks guys for responding. The spring is pretty close to the property line so I'm not sure how far I can go and my home site is up hill from the spring. If it were in Florida it would be called a steep head ravine. Generating power is new to me but as I have been reading all the different questions on this site and others I am starting to grasp the concept. It has been a long time since I went to electronics school and used electronic concepts so I am beginning to relearn electricity.

I believe I certainly will need a battery bank and try to run as much as I can on 12 volts, With an inverter for major appliances. The property is in a cloud forest so I am guessing that solar will not be very effective in heating water or generating electricity.

So now I guess I just need to figure out what kind of devise I need in terms of the type of turbin to use and how many volts should I generate at. My guess would run toward some type of 12 or 24 volt altinator, parts that would be easily obtained in Costa Rica. Avilability is a main concern for that part of the world.

[finnsawyer]

I would think that you will not be allowed to interfere in any way with the water flow to the houses.  This means that you can not connect any piping to the supply.  Consequently you will be limited to a paddle wheel type system immersed in the stream.  People have discussed such systems on this site before.  Do a search.

[keng]

Thanks, I will check. The water supply is fed with just one of the five pipes coming out of the collection box, the otherpipes are just free flowing creating the stream. I will check with the government about using the excess water flow. The source is the head waters to the resulting stream.

[finnsawyer]

Yeah, you may find the water authority has reserved the remaining flow for future use.  You may be able to use it, but could lose the privilege at any time.  If so, don't invest too much in a system.  Also, don't build it where you might have to tear it down in the future just so they could use the output from another pipe.

[keng]

I am hoping power will be brought up my road within a year or so. There are poles in the village, 1/2 mile away, no whire but the poles are there. From what I have been told progress is very slow moving there. The road almost requires a 6x6 drive to get to the farm. Some really big gullies.

[keng]

One more question and I will stop. From the description of the box and the 5 pipes coming out of the bottom, can any of youse guys figure out what I can expect as my flow per pipe.

[finnsawyer]

You might try measuring the flow in the resulting stream.  Make a small float, put it in the stream, time how long it takes to go a given distance, and then compute the cross sectional area at some reasonable point along the path.  You can then compute the number of gallons or liters per second.  This should give you an idea of what you've got.

[keng]

Thank you GeoM, I won't be going back to the farm for a few more months so I was hoping there was a way to figure the flow with that much preasure, So I could try to get some of the componants before I go down there again. But if it takes onsite verification thats what I will do. Thanks again. Keng

[ghurd]

This may be a little to simple.

How about 3 @ 4" elbows, on 3 overflow pipes, output pointing up.  This would make most of the available water go out 1 left 4" pipe, but if the flow is too much, it could still get out the 3 elbows.

Then a 4x2" (or 3") reducer, to 20' of 2" (or 3") pipe down to the 'genny'. Measure the head.

See how long it takes to fill a 5 gallon bucket.

I doubt it would effect the home water supply.  Could cut the top half of the end of a 4" cap off, put it on your 'power pipe' to allow the homes to get first dibbs, you get next dibbs, extra still goes out the overflow?

You could assume it would work and build a matched system here to take with you.

Furnace blower and matching nozzle, TDMs / treadmill motors, assorted pulleys, whatever...

Would the neighbor who owns the spot 20' down the hill really care about a 2' box up there?  I wouldn't.

Stray thoughts...

G-

[Gary D]

A chart may help you here. It shows how much a small difference in gallons per minute makes- and hight also...

 When you get back to the village, I'd try talking to the leaders one on one and do some pr work. Change is scary, and they more than likely did NOT plan on the source of their drinking water changing hands. I think it would be in everyone's best interest if any system was using only the overflow (as you said). Good luck, Gary D.

www.waterwheelfactory.com/HP%20Table.htm

[boarder girl]

Since you have high flow, use a large container such as a 30 gallon garbage can.  Using a stop watch record how long it takes to fill the container.  Here's the formula:  gpm=gallons(whatever your container size is) divided by the number of seconds it takes to fill, times 60. (ie: 30 gallon container fills in 12 seconds - gpm = 30/12x60=150 gpm.  Hope this helps.

Lori

[Nando]

Ken:

What happened with this project ??

Email me direct to nando37-at-comcast-dot-net

regards

Nando