Author Topic: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel  (Read 1474 times)

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PCHedglin

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"Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« on: October 24, 2005, 06:25:38 AM »
Has anyone else tried this?


I have a 1996 F-150 with over 193500 miles on it.  With nothing to lose, I started mixing E85 with my fuel on my rear tank (have dual tanks) when gas prices started to go nuts here in Minnesota.  That was over 5,000 miles ago.  I started out mixing it 50/50 with regular gas so I was only around 40% ethanol.  I was in need of a tuneup at the time and my engine had been idling rough(missing, etc.).  The first thing I noticed was that this went away immediately!  After about 1,000 miles, I did a complete tuneup and found that the sparkplugs were burned completely clean of deposits.  After the tuneup I started mixing larger amounts of E85, fully expecting a point at which my truck would start to run erratic, etc.  This never happened.  I now run E-85 on both tanks without any issues.  The cold weather will be setting in soon, so will be watching carefully how starting may be harder with the high mix of ethanol.  This is a MPFE engine, so starting might not be as big an issue as say with a carbureted engine...time will tell.


I drive 42miles one-way to work each day, so know exactly what kind of gas mileage that I get.  I always get around 13mpg with my 351 and was getting just over 15mpg when I was mixing 50/50 and then it went back down to 13mpg when I got up to the 85% ethanol that I run now.


Since this is working so well in my vehicle, and I have a small hobby farm, I applied for and was approved for a Small Ethanol Producers permit(10,000 proof gallons or less).  There was NO FEE and the application process was easy and straight forward and took less than 2 weeks.  The licensing is handled by the TTB (Taxes and Trades Bureau).  So, now I am "LEGAL" with the FEDS and can start building my own "Refinery" for my ethanol.


Patrick

« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 06:25:38 AM by (unknown) »

ghurd

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2005, 12:42:11 AM »
Glad its all working out.

What state?

And could someone please define "E-85"!


I was under the impression that ethanol would be easier to start than gas in cold weather.

G-

« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 12:42:11 AM by ghurd »
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PCHedglin

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2005, 01:01:35 AM »
Hey Ghurd,


Minnesota Here!  


E85 is 85% Ethanol and 15% Gasoline (approximately 105 octane!). It is available in all but 14 or so states. You can check out www.E85fuel.com for more information on availability in your area.


From what I understand, alcohol has a lower vapor pressure so does not ignite well at lower temperatures.  I have been "told" that with the MPFI (Multi-Port Fuel Injected) engines, that the fuel is atomized by the high injection pressure so this shouldn't be a huge problem.  If it is a problem, then I can always run regular gas in my other tank for cold-weather starting.  


Thanks for your Interest!


Patrick

« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 01:01:35 AM by PCHedglin »

terry5732

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2005, 01:53:36 AM »
Most vehicles get  a drop in mileage about proportional to the % of alcohol. Doing a 21 mile one way trip you may be OK (heat up enough), but for many people that don't get their vehicle hot, they have many rust issues from the large amount of water in exhaust. You may notice in a MN winter that your engine doesn't run as warm and therefore your heater doesn't put out as much. Governor Tax Plenty's plan to increase the alcohol requirement to 20% will only cause Minnesotans too use more fuel in total.

How do they define proof gallons?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 01:53:36 AM by terry5732 »

ghurd

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2005, 02:42:54 AM »
So E-85, mixed 50/50, is 85 parts ethanol, 15 parts gas, and another 100 parts gas?


I haven't really worked on cars since carburators and points were the standard.

Everyone added 'dry-gas' in the winter, just in case.

I thought it was ethanol, and thought it was to get the H2O absorbed.

Maybe the H2O in the system is the problem?

Don't recall any problems, but it was 5 cans for $1 at the time,

so we all just added it every other tank or so when it was real cold weather.


Ohio is not as cold as Minnesota!

G-

« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 02:42:54 AM by ghurd »
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nothing to lose

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2005, 08:12:14 AM »
"With nothing to lose, I started mixing E85"


Hmmm, I don't remember us working on that together??

Hee hee, haw haw.

If you didn't catch the joke, look at my name :)


"Has anyone else tried this?"


Uh, ya sort of, some what, funny you should ask, which is why I posted my first joke about not remembering :)


BruceS has a dairy here where we been talking about alot of things we're doing with this. Also we got off topic a few times and what nots, I think my post tonight brings it up to 86 posts in that thread now.


I am glad to hear your doing so well with it also. I got tied down with non-related problems and for awhile not been able to get much done on several projects.


" I always get around 13mpg with my 351 and was getting just over 15mpg when I was mixing 50/50 and then it went back down to 13mpg when I got up to the 85% ethanol that I run now."


Wow, only 13-15mpg with a newer truck? Must be a heavy duty work truck eh? I have not checked the milage on my older F150 with 351 but I think it's more than that. And I thought it was bad. Alky does make em run better sometimes :)

My first brew I thought the rear tank was empty so I switched to it planning to runn the truck out of gas till it would not start at all then was going to prime the carb with pure alky. Well it would never run out bad I have the idle pretty low and it is very rough chug chug put put at idle. I dumped some alky in it and it purred like a kitten, never heard it run that good ever before!


I have fermented a bunch ready to distill it, but so far only tested smaller amounts. My carburated 351 does love it though and the other truck with a 460 also likes it. I have to watch though as the 460 is older and may have rubber diaphrams and other parts that the alky could eat.


So how do you make yours. I am trying various things including garbage groceries I got free as unsellable. Plain sugar works for sure. Grits, cornmeal, candy, might work not sure yet. Old juices seemed to do fine fermenting will find out when I distill that barral.


Good luck on your new refinery :)

« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 08:12:14 AM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2005, 08:21:19 AM »
"So E-85, mixed 50/50, is 85 parts ethanol, 15 parts gas, and another 100 parts gas?"


NO, E50 would be 50% alky and 50% gas.

 E85 is 85% alky and 15% gas.


Lucky you never had problems, gasline freeze up is no fun. I think for most people it means a tow to a heated shop and let the car sit till it thaws. For me it meant building a fire under the car and surrounding it with cardboard. Well, maybe not a fire, electric heater under car or heat gun crawling from tank to engine and back a few times durring the night.

 Never liked that. Lucky it only happened a few times when I lived up there in Ohio.

One of the reasons I like to have extra cars :)

« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 08:21:19 AM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2005, 08:48:06 AM »


There is a formula for it.


Proof X real gallons / 100 I think.


190proof X 50 real gallons / 100 = 95 proof gallons.


So if your permit is for less than 10,000 proof gallons you can only really make about 5,000 real gallons


Though using the formula you can make more real gallons if you limit yourself to 150proof then.


150proof X 50 real gallons / 100 = 75 proof gallons.


So you can make a higher proof but less real usable real gallons, or make a lower proof and more usable real gallons.


I think there are tax credits for 190 proof not sure how low under 190 you can go and still get them though. At 150 proof you might not be able to get them.


Otherwise I geuss it's a matter of what does your vehicle run best on? If it runs just as well on 150 or 160 proof might as well stick to that and make more real gallons :)


5,000 gallons a year is 100 gallons a week and a 2 week vacation anyway. So if it's for your own use it's probably plenty, if to sell then got other things to consider too.


But the above is proof gallons.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 08:48:06 AM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2005, 08:57:28 AM »
I meant to mention the water and rusted exhaust part.


I don't know if that is much of a problem or not realy. In the old days we would not buy cars dripping water from the tail pipe because it was a sign of a blowed gasket, cracked head, or other major engine problem.

Now cars running on store bought gas drip like heck!


Nothing wrong with the car, just the gas we buy and the engines used will blow water out the tailpipe driving down the road or idling in the yard.

 I don't see how it could be any worse really using alcohol than gas as far as rusting the exhaust system. It's full of water either way.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 08:57:28 AM by nothing to lose »

PCHedglin

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2005, 10:10:13 AM »
Hey, We really have "Nothing to Lose" now!


I was hoping to get some more details from BruceS about how he is "predistilling" much of his with an aquarium heater?  Anyway, I am in the planning stages of a reflux column still, but if something a bit "simpler" were to arise as an option, I would definitely be open to it.


My truck is 4WD as well as an extended cab, full-size box.  So that may have something to do with the mileage.  My wife's 93 E-150 with a 302 doesn't get much better than that either.


I am going to try different sugars for now, but I am literally surrounded by corn out here.  So I may try that next year once I get my process down.


Thanks for the input!


Patrick

« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 10:10:13 AM by PCHedglin »

pyrocasto

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2005, 12:36:19 PM »
Anyone got any good sites on making the stuff here. Apparently my Ranger is a FFV  vehicle and will run on Ethanol. Dont know but I've got some time so I wouldnt mind experimenting with making the stuff, maybe cut down on my monthly fuel bill some.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 12:36:19 PM by pyrocasto »

Bruce S

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2005, 02:05:39 PM »
NTL;

   I am here.

Work during the fall months gets deep. I am working on a newer brew this coming weekend.

This has been the first real decent time I've been able to surf the comments.

First:

For those looking to get there feet wet on this here's a website "http://www.amazingstill.com/default.htm" someone sent me this is pretty close to what my setup is.

I have larger units and my newest one has a faucet 1 1/2" from the bottm so I don't have to open the cooker to check on the proof. I've also ordered a caloriemeter that will tell me right off what the proof is.


Also, here's some help with the E85 stuff and older vehicles along with Minn., Wisconsin and Michigan weather.

190P will not freeze until it hits the -100F point & 200P will not freeze until it hits -400F so this stuff is really good fuel tank anti-freeze. I keep mine in the deep freeze which reads -35F any water in it stays frozen long enough for me to pour the Alky off.

For trucks that have only been using straight gas for a long time , then may I suggest you purchase some replacement gas filters?

The reasons are that even the E85 will start to clean out all the gunk that's been laying around on the bottom of your tank and in your fuel lines.

E85 is good stuff, but you'll get better gas mileage if you stick to having gas in with it. This will also help with any of the older vehicles out there that still gas older style rubber gaskets in them.

If you want to go full Alky and not run gas it them then you can do like I do and use 160P and up.

The truck getting only 13 MPG, you might want to look at something on the truck, I have a 81 F100 with an inline 6 and single carb and I get 16+ even with a heavy load in the back.

Alky is horrible to get started when the temp gets close to zero, so when the cold starts to stay below 30 it's better to run 60/40 Alky/gas I do and even when the ice storms where covering everything here in St. Louis mine started every time, trash turck owner in S. Michigan taught me this one( he used corn Alky 50% and farm gas 50%.

The warm up time isn't affected by the Alky at all, I normally give the truck 2 minutes run time before I'm down the road ( about the time it takes me to refill my coffe cup and leave).

The newer fuel inject car of ours hasn't had any problems since I changed it over to 60/40 but now it hates the 87 octane when I'm not there to pour the Alky in before re-fueling with gas. It too had a short time of unusal increased milage. Talked to a Ford assembly engineer about this and he explained that it's the interaction of the engines getting was is seen as an octane boost. Kinda like going from 87Oct to racing fuel.


Hope this helps;

Sorry for taking so long to get to this.

HEY NTL, I got the joke !!!


Cheers

Bruce S

« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 02:05:39 PM by Bruce S »
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electrondady1

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2005, 07:15:55 PM »
ive always just used bread yeast for wine . what about these advanced strains for increased content ? does it work?


  as far as the use of starch to form a mash are these "enzines" necesary?  

« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 07:15:55 PM by electrondady1 »

benjamindees

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2005, 09:28:18 PM »
So E-85, mixed 50/50, is 85 parts ethanol, 15 parts gas, and another 100 parts gas?

Yes, so it would end up being 42.5% ethanol.  In reality, though, gas in the US has about 15% oxygenates (ethanol or mtbe) anyways.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2005, 09:28:18 PM by benjamindees »

Bruce S

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2005, 03:56:28 PM »
E1

I've talked to as many master brewers as who will listen and they tell me the enzymes are necessary.

However since I like to do things on the cheap I kept digging until I finally found an old article that talked about making 'shine with the old corn cobs and such.

Found out the enzyme is found in small quantities in barley and dried whole kernal corn. other wise the advanced strains are more than I want to spend (minimum purchase I can find so far within our field of pharmaceuticals is 2Gs).


I am compling some info out of an article and making sure I'm not going to get sued by anyone and will then put it up in a diary.

I haven't tired it yet, NTL has a better setup for this than I do at the time, I have to get the amounts down to some thing under 110 gals at a time.


There's a way to make the starchy stuff work with an acid base as well but can't seem to find out which one and in what amounts.

Malincrodt is close by where I work , so I may call on them for some help.


 I'll keep digging.


Bruce S

« Last Edit: October 25, 2005, 03:56:28 PM by Bruce S »
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cyplesma

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2005, 04:56:04 PM »
I suspect there is a lot of water in our gas here in east/northeast michigan.


I do a 62 mile one trip to work. (yes ouch with current prices)


I guess I'll have to try it also. no doubt a little at a time.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2005, 04:56:04 PM by cyplesma »

nothing to lose

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2005, 11:00:00 PM »
Glad to see we are both still here :)

No telling if I will be online this weekend or not, could be a bit maybe.


Simpler still? Electric hot water tank and copper tube?


I worked on my electric water tank a bit today, got what I hope was the last of the sediment out. Old tank, must have never been flushed. DRAIN THOSE TANKS! Most of the scrap yard hot water tanks I get are perfectly fine except for full of sediment. Sometimes, rarely, one will have a leak. Only about $12 for a controll and $10-$15 for an element, so why do so many tanks get tossed when they don't leak?? $25 to repair or $220 to replace, hmmm which would I choose :)


Anyway after much work on flushing this out again, I connected the juice to it. Looks like a fried element perhaps so no cooking today. Tommorow I hope to get a new element if the local store has one. It's a 110v model. Control worked fine I think, got power but no heat.


So I was looking at this pretty hard today. The temps setting on this one goes up to 170F. Remove a small piece of plastic and I can turn it higher if I want. I am thinking forget the reflux condenser now, for a while anyway. I poked a meat thermometer into a plastic milk jug lid and sat it over the top hole of the tank, filled to top with water. This may be a good way to set the temp control exactly to the correct temp I want. If I go above 170F I am geussing at the setting, most of the newer controls I look at only go to 150F, and most actaully just say warmer and hotter with no real way of knowing any temp at all. Fill with water and gently bump it up till the meat thermometer reads the temp I want.


I think the electric tank may be the way to go for many people. Although I can build a fire or use waste heat, many people can't. So I am looking for something everyone can do. This may be it, small, portable, adjustable temp, 110V available anywhere and many ways. Should cost less than useing it to heat water, and many people use them for that.


If nothing else goes wrong around here, I plan to cook a batch soon as I get the element, tommorow hopefully or at least this weekend. Once I make sure this water tank actaully works and I can use the fuel from it, it goes into one of my trucks.

 Preheat wort with waste auto heat, charge batteries while driving, run inverter to power still. Not sure how that will work. Having trouble making my parts or getting work done for the other plan for a driving still, so I will try this idea. Though it will reduce mileage a bit I am sure, it will not cost money for electric. Main thing is it will work when I don't have grid power available.

 I think the element is 1250watts so I figure 1500watts to be safe and that is 125 amps at 12V. 6 T105's wired for 12V would be a 600amp bank at 20 hours. Figure the element should be kicking on and off just to maintain temps (not running steady) and the truck should be kicking out at least 25amps charging the T105s steady so it may balance out well. I should be getting far more than 25 amps from the truck but I think 25-30 is all I am getting through the battery isolator, I may wire that differently for this.


My other driving still ideas (more than one) are probably much better ideas, but I can't make the parts right now and again everyone wants to know what it's for when I tell them I want something built. Good grief, doesn't anyone just do work for money anymore without being nosey about it?


Boiling the wort with auto heat I don't think would be a problem, easy to do, controlling it to only 170-180F is the hard part though. Once I get that built, reduction of mileage should be no worse than just having a second or third fuel tank on board. Trucks do that all the time anyway, so no big deal there.


I have barrels of wort ready, maybe next week I won't have to buy gas and will have some money again :)

« Last Edit: October 25, 2005, 11:00:00 PM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2005, 01:06:24 AM »
"Found out the enzyme is found in small quantities in barley and dried whole kernal corn."


Hmm, Then I geuss the enzyme should be in 50# bags of whole corn like I bought for hog and goat feed and probably in the powered ground corn as well since it is just ground up whole corn. I have not bought any for a long time, I think I was paying around $6.50 per 100# a few years ago. Think I should dump a pound into the next barrel?


I was actaully thinking about buying a 100# of whole corn to burn, see how it does in the wood burner, thought about trying the ground also.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 01:06:24 AM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2005, 01:17:15 AM »
Read through BruceS diary. Should give you a good start, info, and some ideas.

Though it's gotton long with 88 posts now, some alittle off topic, lots of info about this.


Bruce said he will probably start another diary on it soon since it it got so large. I have not had a camera available for awhile now, but when I have one I will probably post a diary also with pics of mine too.


I have mixed up 4 barrels now for fermenting using various things, hopefully I can run some of each in a few days and see how they turn out. Might be interesting, one barrel of garbage may be a dud or might work?

« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 01:17:15 AM by nothing to lose »

Bruce S

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2005, 07:18:28 AM »
Actually no is the truth about gas in Mich.

Our family owned a small 7 acre farm in the far southwestern part of the state and there's this neat paste that we used on a dip-stick to tell if they were delivering water in the gas.

The gov. is pretty strict about the amount of water that can be found in the underground tanks, they get money for the fuel sold not water sitting in the bottom of the tanks.

Once you do start adding this Alky to your tank, try using the E85 first before going into production, you'll not ever want to go back.

The best thing is that you can go a little at a time, this will also allow you to make sure your vehicle will be okay as well.

Unless you have a very old vehicle with an original carb on it you shouldn't have any problem with the E85.

Mostly the concerns about E85 is for the newer vehicles, they use oxygen sensors to constantly adjust the air/fuel mixture and when E85 or higher is introduced some of the older units go wack-oo.


Hope this helps

Cheers

Bruce S

« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 07:18:28 AM by Bruce S »
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Bruce S

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2005, 07:35:39 AM »
NTL;

   The whole kernel dried corn is one that has the enzymes in it. The powered stuff won't do you any good. I already tried that what a mess the corn flour made!

I would put the whole kernel corn into the wood burner, I dont care how dry they say it is, there's water in it and if your burner is a clsoed loop style you'll have steam trying to blow holes in the walls.

Think Jiffy-pop on streiods!

I have one more person that I have to hear bcak  from and then I'll have some stuff for you to try if you don't mind.

I can pay you back in more batteries if you want. You already have the big barrels and lids.

Besides the whole kernel corn you'll need some plain'ole sunday papers about 25 stack should do, plus about 10 of the yeast packets or 1/4 lb brick of the stuff would be better.

Bruce S
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 07:35:39 AM by Bruce S »
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Bruce S

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2005, 08:25:03 AM »
NTL;

  As they say "great minds think alike"

I just recently acquired a 10-gal 110Vac water to try just the same thing.

I agree pounds of sentiment in the bottom--yuck-- Now looking for a smaller 5 gal one as well.


Here's my thought, I would say idea but I'm stealing it from the electric car people.

Since these run on 110Vac; I've opened up one of my old inverter and using my meter found where the 12Vdc is pumped up to 144Vdc then rectified down to 120Vac as a MSW.

I plan to use 8 of those old batteries like I sent you to bring the D.C. voltage up to that point and by using banks of them to allow of the current needs and use the electric water heater as the final cooker for the corn based stuff.

The normal hot water out put should be able to have a copper pipe attached and using standard solder on 45 & 90 degree bends make it so the 120F - 125F stuff flows through that.

Anyway, here's a thought, let the vapor rise about 18" out of the hot side connect a 45 degree elbow and have it run down to an old heater coil then down to a container.

To get to the Holy Grail of 200P I plan on trying yet another different route.

I have been saving all those little packets of beads that come with computer parts and in stuff from the store. I now have about 3lbs of them. Since they are for keeping moister away from metal and stuff, I thought I would try using it to see if it would pull the water away from the Alky. I read somewhere that there is a "desiccant" that does just that and isn't too expensive, but then you have to re-dry them for reuse. Won't be too bad if a solar can re-dry them in a predictable time frame.


If I can't get the inverter to handle the current load, I'm sure I can make the element work off DC and have the temp settings work off a low amperage inverter.

I agree the temp setting dial won't tell me anything so I'm going to use my digital temp probe and set the dial to get the proper temps without going too high. I'll then disconnect everything, let it sit an entire 24hours while letting it cool down and recharge all the battery banks. Then fire it up and see if it stays at that temp without me messing with it.

I should get this part tested and have results by next weekend.


Cheers

Bruce S

« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 08:25:03 AM by Bruce S »
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electrondady1

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2005, 08:28:04 AM »
ntl , your gonna use the hot water tank as a mash cooker or as a still?
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 08:28:04 AM by electrondady1 »

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2005, 06:16:50 AM »
A still, it works but needs tuned out better used it lazst night :)
« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 06:16:50 AM by nothing to lose »

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2005, 06:29:54 AM »
I used the water tank still last night. It will work for me in several ways I think but I have to fine tune things more.


I noticed before and again now you say 120F? I been trying for 180F. Which would be best? Are you getting a higher proof maybe at 120F just cooking off the best parts and me getting less than best perhaps? Seems with my tank I was not getting much of anything till around 160F or so.


I was correct that the tempcontroll can easily be turned up higher. First I broke off alittle back plastic tip and it let me turn it alittle further but not enough. Mine has a brass looking screw with an aluminum looking piece pressed onto it for a pointer. I gently pried it loose and could turn the controll way up. I have to get a better way to messure temps though. I duct taped a meat thermemoter to the copper tube, don't think it gave a very good reading.


I got some very burnable stuff. Dipped a paper towel into it then light it. The wet part of the towel got very hot but I never saw the flame :)

 Clear flames, looking good :)


I think I over cooked my stuff though not knowing  what temps I was getting latter though and got water with it. I'll have to test it today, it got late last night, but it did work well, at least till I turned it too high perhaps.


Got to run, take kid to school.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 06:29:54 AM by nothing to lose »

nothing to lose

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2005, 07:45:37 AM »
I'll try it, not sure what it is but sounds interesting anyway :)


I checked yesterday when buying a new element for the water tank, whole corn is $6.00 per 100lbs. $6.25 for cracked or ground corn. That's about the same or even less than I was paying a few years back when I had goats and pigs for awhile. I thought it would actually be higher now.


I have a ton of yeast packets from the friend that closed his salvage grocery store.

Papers may be the hard part for me, I don't read them, local papers are small not like St. Louis or other big city papers. Might need to know more of how many pounds for paper. I could probably get old papers free, like 100lb or so, but 25 think large phone book for papers around here as thickness of 25 Sundays.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 07:45:37 AM by nothing to lose »

electrondady1

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2005, 08:44:17 AM »
 ive been searching for any changes in laws governing distilation here in canada but can't find any thing yet . it's strictly illegal to run a still here as far as i can tell. but some times a guy has to take a chance in order to make ends meet!


 if i use 2kls.(5lbs.) of white sugar how much water do i use? if i just use one pack of yeast will the process just take longer? i was thinking the yeast dies at 20% alcohol , even if there is sugar left in solution.  so i wou8ld be better off using more water getting a samller percentage of alcohol but have all the sugar used up??

« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 08:44:17 AM by electrondady1 »

ghurd

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2005, 09:34:59 AM »
Sugar beet pulp?

Just a thought.

G-
« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 09:34:59 AM by ghurd »
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PCHedglin

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2005, 01:41:22 PM »
Hey everyone...


The boiling point of the alcohol is around 170 degrees, but depends on the alcohol content of your wort.  You want to try to get the alcohol to boil off, but not the water vapor.  The trick is to keep the temperature near the boiling temperature of your mixture, but this will slowly rise as you remove alcohol and are left with more water.  At some point you will get mostly water, then it's time to stop.  You can definitely reuse your low proof runoff and whatever is left in the tank for another batch since it will still have a small alcohol content.


What are you guys using for a distillation column?


Also, remember that the larger the surface area of the liquid, the more efficiently/faster you will be able to get the alcohol to boil off.  Example:  55 gallon drum on end gives a much smaller surface area to the wort than say a 55 gallon drum lying on its side.


Of course, if you are using an old water heater, they are designed to stand up.


I am in the process of rounding up all the parts mine yet.  Still in the design stage.  I did manage to get an old steel shed so I could have a place away from the house to work on this.


Patrick

« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 01:41:22 PM by PCHedglin »

ghurd

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2005, 01:59:31 PM »
Long ago, I used copper tubing.

A brass bolt drilled longways to the OD of the tubing.

A piece of innertube, some silicone, and a nut (other than me).

Both ends of the tubing had a bolt head soldered on.

One bolt through the boiler top, 1 through the water cooler bottom.

Sealed with the other parts.

Worked better than the rest of the setup!
« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 01:59:31 PM by ghurd »
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ghurd

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2005, 02:25:29 PM »
I also remember thinking an insulated top half of the boiler would increase efficiency, because the vapor would not be so likely to collect on the air cooled top surfaces inside of the boiler, drip back down and need boiled out again.

So maybe an insulated (Top half at least) gas water heater would be a good idea.


I saw an off grid batch water heater at an off grid bakery. Only the bottom / burner area was modified, and not much. Smoke and heat went up out the top same as the factory design.

They threw in twigs, branches, junk mail, and about anything else that would burn in the burner area. It worked quite well and a lot faster than I expected. IIRC, it was 10 years old at the time.

The water had to be a certain temperature for dishwashing.

The health inspector actually approved it.


The baker retired. The heater might still be in the building.

I could try to get pic's if anyone has any interest.

G-

« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 02:25:29 PM by ghurd »
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pyrocasto

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2005, 12:39:02 AM »
Thanks, I've done quite a few hours of reading the last 2 days and have a couple questions.


If I want a gallon of mash, how much sugar(since I'm starting with sugar) in the jug?


How much yeast, and how will I know if I've got enough/too much of any component?


Also, where can I find more info on permits and such for making alky for my truck here in NC?


Thanks for any help guys, I'm ready to start playing with my first little batch. :-)

« Last Edit: October 28, 2005, 12:39:02 AM by pyrocasto »

Bruce S

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Re: "Homebrewed" E85 Alcohol Fuel
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2005, 09:03:36 AM »
E1;

   The ratio I use is 1 1/2lbs per gal water. If you have a saccrometer( fancy name for a device that tells you how sugary the mix is) then try to keep your first few runs around 15% this I keep getting told is the best for Alky production. I of course don't get real technical about it, just found that 1 1/2 per gal works out.

I know people who are into the whole PH adjustment and everything....not me too much work.


Anything left in the bottom I use for my plants and they are still putting out flowers and green peppers!


However the idea of reusing the sludge at the bottom for a new batch is a good idea as the water and left over yeast will be clean and pure enough.


I use plain bread yeast, mine takes about 12 - 14 days to be ready for the distillation.

This is the main reason I put together a second still.


Cheers!

Bruce S

« Last Edit: October 28, 2005, 09:03:36 AM by Bruce S »
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