Author Topic: Putting It All Together  (Read 2389 times)

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Charlane

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Putting It All Together
« on: June 15, 2006, 12:22:01 PM »
Hi Everyone.  It's been a year since I last posted but this is THE forum to come to.  I've got 16 T105 and T145 Trojan 6 volt golf cart batteries and 4 L16 6 volt batteries with 3 55 watt 6 volt solar panels, one Trace C35 charge controller set to 12 volt, 1 400 watt A403 wind generator also 12 volt, and a bunch of blocking diodes and then my power inverters.  This is all meant for a 12 volt system.


Here lies the problem.  Of the 3 solar panels that I have, I can't seem to arrive at a good conclusion about how to use these by series connection.  If I do connect these for a 12 volt system, then I would have to leave out one panel and use 2 panels only getting a 9 amp input to my batts.  That sucks.  I would rather connect these for 18 volt input and then find a way to diffuse the incoming voltage to at least 14 volts.  I was checking out the news on the new SDC type of electricity invented by John Sullivan discovered while attempting to devise a hydrogen generator.  It's not DC but it's not AC either.  If he can do that, then I can figure this out.


What to do?  Right now, I'm in the process of converting my lawnmower engine into a generator but first I need to get a replacement carburetor and a GM alternator with a built-in voltage regulator.  It's only a 2.5 hp engine but it's better than not.


Charlane

« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 12:22:01 PM by (unknown) »

Charlane

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Re: Putting It All Together
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2006, 06:43:53 AM »
Oh, I should add that all of my batts will be connected for a 12 volt system also.  That's easy by itself.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 06:43:53 AM by Charlane »

John II

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Re: Putting It All Together
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2006, 08:07:03 AM »
Hello Charlane :


Who is John Sullivan ? Can you give us a web site or URL to read so we will know what you are talking about ? Sounds interesting....


I think what might work great for you is a " Solar Boost " charge controller. These will take higher voltage panels and actually make use of that higher voltage to charge a lower voltage set of batteries. I believe this would solve your problem.


http://www.kansaswindpower.net/charge_controls.htm


John II

« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 08:07:03 AM by John II »

wlcoldiron

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Re: Putting It All Together
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2006, 08:16:40 AM »
Hi

Wire the first two panels in parallel. Then take the combined output from the first two and wire the output in series so the end result is 12v.The  first panel output goes to the terminal on the second panel. What you end up with is a parallel connection between the first set of panels and a series connection with the remaining panel. Wlc
« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 08:16:40 AM by wlcoldiron »

kitno455

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Re: Putting It All Together
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2006, 08:30:16 AM »
uhm- read the manual for your charge controller. can it take 18v? the batteries will clamp the voltage when they are low, and the charge controller should disconnect when they are high, right?


allan

« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 08:30:16 AM by kitno455 »

ghurd

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Re: Putting It All Together
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2006, 09:54:42 AM »
Thats not a great idea.  The amps will be about the same as 2 panels in series.

G-
« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 09:54:42 AM by ghurd »
www.ghurd.info<<<-----Information on my Controller

RogerAS

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Re: Putting It All Together
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2006, 10:14:00 AM »
Hi Charlane,


First off DO NOT get a self regulating alternator. If your batteries are down say to 11 volts the alternator is going to try to bring them back to around 14V as fast as it can. This is not good. Unless your engine is a biggie it will bog down and the belt will wear out quick, direct coupling can avoid belt issues but the load will be too great for the engine. The batteries never need to see more amperage than their C-20 rate. That means if you have potiental1000 amp hours in the bank they NEVER need to see more than 20% going into them. More will lead to early failure or worse. There are ways to control this input rather than self regulation. A simple rheostat, a high wattage variable resistor, works pretty good if you are around to monitor what's going on. Homepower Magazine has a schematic of a better approach. That circuit controls both voltage and amperage, but you still have to keep an eye on things. I only use my engine-alternator setup when equalization time rolls around, and since I have a Trace C-40 charge controller for my PV array this motor useage isn't always needed either. The Trace is NOT a MPPT controller. I wish I had one, and is next on the list of upgrades.


Hope this helps,


RogerAS

« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 10:14:00 AM by RogerAS »

scottsAI

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Re: Putting It All Together
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2006, 10:58:14 AM »
Interesting link,

If your going for the solar boost, you may as well get the MPPT lower on the page for the same price. Can handle up to 50v input. Not a bad price for a 250w MPPT.

If any chance you will be adding to the solar panels and have MPPT add in series, they all need to be rated the same current. Voltage adds, the lowest current (cell or panel) is what the series string will supply. Make sure to use reverse voltage protection diodes on each panel.


Think where you plan to go in the future, small cost now can size the controller for future upgrades. Don't waist money on upgrades (500w) unless you have a real need.


When shopping for MPPT look for the watts. Inductors are used to transform the voltage, they store energy - power. Compare the volt and amps at the same rating to be sure your comparing the same thing. The above mentioned unit is rated 250 watts. Max current is listed at 25amps... that will be at 10 volts, not useful for a 12v battery unless dead, 250 / 12 = 20.833 amps. Max voltage is 50v, current then would be 250 / 50 = 5 amps max.

Have fun,

Scott.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 10:58:14 AM by scottsAI »

SamoaPower

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Re: Putting It All Together
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2006, 01:43:31 PM »
I'm afraid you have a much bigger problem than just how to manage the panels. This is an example of a badly mismatched system. If your batteries are in near new condition, you would have close to 2600 amp-hour capacity. You would be lucky to get more than 30-40 Ah/Day from the panels even with MPPT. You would also be lucky if you got an average of more than 50 Ah/Day from the Air 403. Your usage would have to be less than this total to keep the batteries in a reasonable state of charge.


That much battery will have a significant self-discharge rate that will need a good percentage of your charge capability just to keep them up. Remember, the biggest killer of batteries is chronic undercharge.


My rules-of-thumb say that I need a combined charge source capability of C/20 to C/10 or in your case, 130 to 260 amps to have reasonable utilization of resources. With your sources, you could expect maybe 10 amps - way short of what's needed.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 01:43:31 PM by SamoaPower »

Charlane

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Re: Putting It All Together
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2006, 05:18:14 PM »
Hi.  Great replies everyone and thank you for your time.  My Trace C35 will handle 18 volts coming in for a 12 volt series but I read somewhere where this is taxing on the controller in that the temperature is greater in this type of application.  Regardless, it's what I have to work with, and yes, it will work as such.


Thanks for the tip on the regulator.  I haven't gotten the alternator yet, but I will put in voltage regulation of my own configuration then given that scenario.


As for the batteries, underuse is not an issue here but I can remove 6 of these and make these dry cell until I am ready to use these again and the shelf live is infinite.  I applied for a patent last year to renew batteries to within 95% of original capacity using chemicals / reagents (my dad's a chemist and I'm an engineer).  One of the those is Ethylenediaminetetraacetic Acid (EDTA).  It's a milder calcified sodium but alkaline in nature that jars the sulfated chelates from the cell to cell leads.  It's a whole lot more involved than this, but this is part of the process as last summer I was in my backyard chainsawing empty batteries to find this out.  My neighbors were calling me the mad scientists until I was fixing their cars and not just with their renewed batteries either!  Now, my results are 100% as long as the 6 volt measures over 5.8 and doesn't hold a charge and the 12 volts register over 11.30 (same).  I have a large battery bank for severe duty, industrial, solar and other applications. I help some of the local farmers with these and I was a big joke until I tested mine when I pulled up in a few tractors, bobcats and front-end loaders.  No joking anymore.


Thanks for the input!  Now I need to figure out how to try to put together a power inverter that outputs in excess of 20A per receptacle.


Oh, on the link for John T. Sully and the new electricity I found http://www.rexresearch.com/sullivan/sullivan.htm.  This is the third electrical current and like I said, it's not a/c and it's not d/c.  It's fascinating.


Charlane

« Last Edit: June 15, 2006, 05:18:14 PM by Charlane »