Author Topic: 10 year grid feed payback (Australia)  (Read 1814 times)

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BT Humble

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10 year grid feed payback (Australia)
« on: August 06, 2007, 04:31:11 AM »
"Solar to have its day in the sun"


http://canberra.yourguide.com.au/detail.asp?class=news&subclass=general&story_id=1032666&



;category=general


Essentially, if this legislation passes then people who are feeding into the grid in Canberra (coincidentally where my "city" house is) will get paid $0.52 per kilowatt hour fed into the grid, up from the current $0.07


It will also be paid on "gross power export" rather than the more common "net metering", so if you produce 10kWh and use 5kWh you'll get paid $5.20 rather than $2.60


Sounds like I might be getting myself a grid-feed setup in the near future. :-D


BTH

« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 04:31:11 AM by (unknown) »

richhagen

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Re: 10 year grid feed payback (Australia)
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2007, 12:37:32 AM »
With that type of incentive, it would certainly appear to make a lot of economic sense.  The one question I would have is the length that the incentive will run.  If it runs for 10 years you can pay off your system.  If it runs for only 2, and then reverts to a much lesser rate then it would be less attractive.  The next time I guess the next time that I see number one, likely its roof will be blue.  Rich
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 12:37:32 AM by richhagen »
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BT Humble

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Re: 10 year grid feed payback (Australia)
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2007, 04:26:34 PM »
Predictably, the electricity company's response has been "We're going to lobby strongly against it".  


(I saw the story in a paper edition of the Canberra Times this morning, but it hasn't appeared on http://www.canberratimes.com.au yet).


BTH

« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 04:26:34 PM by BT Humble »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: 10 year grid feed payback (Australia)
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2007, 06:29:24 PM »
Predictably, the electricity company's response has been "We're going to lobby strongly against it".


For which you can hardly blame them:  They're being ordered to pay more to buy electricity than they can charge to sell it.


That's the sort of thing that took down PG&E:  The so-called "deregulation" was a set of new regulations that required them to:

 - Divest themselves of their own generating capacity and become a transport company.

 - Sell electricity at a fixed flat rate.

 - Not enter long-term fixed-rate contracts, but

 - Buy it at whatever the spot-market price is.

Needless to say they went broke selling low and buying at price spikes, while suppliers had an incentive to produce shortages in order to spike the prices.


Not to mention the incentive to fraud:  If you can sell power for more than seven times what you can buy it for (and power storage doesn't lose anywhere NEAR 85% of the power) it makes sense to alternate between charging your batteries from the line and discharging them into it.


Thus you can do your own version of what brought down Enron when they got caught:  "Exporting" power from CA at a low price, while "importing" the same amount of power at a high price.


= = = =


I'd be happy for a net-metering scheme that just paid for any excess at the wholesale price:


 - Good deal for the power companies:  Renewable sources tend to have a surplus at peak load times and deficits at low load times, so paying a flat rate average wholesale price for biased-toward-peak-times power is a bargain.  Meanwhile they don't have to put in fancy separate metering equipment than separates power direction and understands peak/offpeak load periods, but can just use existing, cheap, bi-directional meters.


 - Good deal for the grid-connected RE-enabled customer:  He gets to use the grid as an infinite battery pack that only costs him the monthly connect "nuisance fee", rather than shell out the amortized purchase plus ongoing maintenance and replacement charges for a giant battery pack.  He only needs to buy enough batteries to handle outages and gets paid for his (necessary) surpluses (as reduced connect fee "maintenance costs" or money in his pocket when his surpluses exceed that fee, rather than burning his surplus power away in a dump load.

« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 06:29:24 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

BT Humble

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Re: 10 year grid feed payback (Australia)
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2007, 05:45:54 PM »


For which you can hardly blame them:  They're being ordered to pay more to buy electricity than they can charge to sell it.


You have a good point there.  However I doubt that more than a few hundred customers (a few thousand at best) are likely to lash out $20k to get sufficient panels on their roof to fully offset their electricity bill, so it's quite unlikely to bankrupt ACTEW.


I agree with you about net metering though, I think selling power back to the utility at the same price you buy seems fair and satisfactory.


BTH

« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 05:45:54 PM by BT Humble »

EMF

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Re: 10 year grid feed payback (Australia)
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2007, 06:44:27 PM »
Dose anyone know what the policy in other states is?  Victoria is of interest to me.


Given the expected price rises that will come from power companies cleaning up their act we may find that thats what we will pay for all our powerer some day.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 06:44:27 PM by EMF »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: 10 year grid feed payback (Australia)
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2007, 09:08:44 PM »
I agree with you about net metering though, I think selling power back to the utility at the same price you buy seems fair and satisfactory.


Actually I'm OK with:

 - selling it back at the same price I buy it for until I've sold as much as I'm buying (per month or preferably per year), then

 - selling the extra for the average of what it costs them to buy power elsewhere, and

 - paying the stay-connected fee on top of it.


And because I'd be buying and selling at flat rate / daily average prices, but selling when wholesale power is more expensive than average and buying when it's cheaper, it's good for them, too.


Meanwhile the stay-connected fee pays for my share of the grid maintenance, meter reading, and paperwork.  Good deal all around.

« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 09:08:44 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »