Author Topic: Used car batteries  (Read 2727 times)

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guruji

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Used car batteries
« on: June 12, 2005, 08:15:27 PM »
Dear Sir I have used car batteries bank.I gave them a long charge and certain batteries were charged but still others could not hold it.Is it wise to remove those that are gravely dead from the bank?

Any comments appreciated.

Thanks
« Last Edit: June 12, 2005, 08:15:27 PM by (unknown) »

ghurd

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2005, 03:29:18 PM »
Yes. The dead batteries will hurt the others.

G-
« Last Edit: June 12, 2005, 03:29:18 PM by ghurd »
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pyrocasto

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2005, 03:47:41 PM »
Yes it would be wise. But it's already not wise to use car batteries in a battery bank.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2005, 03:47:41 PM by pyrocasto »

electrondady1

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2005, 05:05:20 PM »
repeated draining of car batteries is hurtfull to them
« Last Edit: June 12, 2005, 05:05:20 PM by electrondady1 »

BT Humble

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2005, 06:04:40 PM »


Yes it would be wise. But it's already not wise to use car batteries in a battery bank.


I might be reading between the lines here, but I suspect that guruji is making do with what he has available to him.


BTH

« Last Edit: June 12, 2005, 06:04:40 PM by BT Humble »

georgeodjungle

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2005, 06:16:29 PM »
i'd try battery addive

on the dead ones.

as long it dosen't smell burnt or shorted.

even the good ones.

works for me.

YES...but draining car "starting" battery don't like to be draind BUT.

like todays cars & trucks put a lite drain, like dome light,computerS,onstar, alarm. auto matic lights ya know the kind that stay on for like 1 min,phone charger,clock ,gps , remote starter.radio,tv, cb,frms,that remember. ect....bla bla bla.

if you have lots of storage ie. batteries & don't drain-em to deep "like a car"& FREE..........run-em.

run-em if ya got-em

get all ya can.

i haven't bought a battery since 1994.

and don't need to get any more right now.

even in -36 deg.cars, van & house.

help keep-em out of the dump.that's a good thing.

so....any ways....there's a pulse thingy & a desulfamafugit.it probly works... alot of people are sold on-em here.

but i don't have extra power...or cash..


FREE & WORKS ?

run-em.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2005, 06:16:29 PM by georgeodjungle »

electrondady1

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2005, 07:32:43 PM »
 "deep cycle" batteries would be better to use . any battery that powers a motor should be deep cycle
« Last Edit: June 12, 2005, 07:32:43 PM by electrondady1 »

ghurd

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2005, 10:51:07 PM »
I was reading between the lines also.

Any well working free batteries are good batteries.

Even better if that is all that is available.

G-
« Last Edit: June 12, 2005, 10:51:07 PM by ghurd »
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Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2005, 01:47:23 PM »
As I understand it, desulfating battery additives work by dissolving the sulfite crystals coating the plate.  This strips off the insulation that's blocking a battery that has sulfated.  But it also reduces the capacity of the battery, because the sulfate doesn't go back into being lead on the plate.  This is good in that it brings some batteries back to life, but not as good as you'd like since it reduces their capacity by the amount of material it removes from the charge/discharge cycle.


Also as I understand it, there are several ways lead-acid batteries fail from age and the two biggies are:

 - Hardened sulfate crystals coat the plates in the sulfation described above.

 - Flakes of plate material fall off, pile up, and eventually create a high-resistance short across the bottom of the plates, self-discharging the battery over progressively shorter intervals as the pile gets larger.  (If you wait until something breaks in a car before fixing it you usually notice this one when the discharge is so fast that a battery that is charged when you garage it in the evening is too far discharged in the morning to start the car on a cold day.)


Flaked-into-shorting batteries are pretty much gone.  You sometimes CAN get them back (at reduced capacity) by charging them up, emptying out the electrolyte, washing out the flakes, and putting in fresh electrolyte.  But that's a major pain, and very hazardous - involving handling a battery that's shorting itself (and may do it BIG time, with sparks, boiling sulfuric acid solution spray, and molten lead all flying when you're dumping its contents), and handling (and disposing of) concentrated sulfuric acid and lead compounds.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2005, 01:47:23 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

whatsnext

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2005, 02:13:49 PM »
I'm not sure if that's how EDTA works as I believe the sulfates are still available for use in the battery process. The batteries I've used it on still seem to have full capacity when I'm done but I don't have enough batts to do a real scientific test and wouldn't want to anyway. If it worked as you say though you could just add acid to bring the SG where it belongs.

John..............
« Last Edit: June 13, 2005, 02:13:49 PM by whatsnext »

Ungrounded Lightning Rod

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2005, 02:23:22 PM »
The problem isn't the acid, but that the lead is no longer on the plate.


EDTA is a chelating agent and sequesters the lead atoms inside itself.  (I don't know if it then releases it back onto the plate under electric influence.  If so it might rebuild the plate.  It was some other compound that essentially ate the hard sulphate crystals and did NOT deposit them back that I'd heard about.)


Note that if the battery is very heavily sulfated and has been for some months there will be big crystals disrupting the mechanical structure of the plates.  If you get them to go back into play the plate comes apart, even if the process that disolves the crystal tries to put it back on the plate.  So the battery is still dead even after your additive has done its work.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2005, 02:23:22 PM by Ungrounded Lightning Rod »

whatsnext

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2005, 02:47:43 PM »
I'm not sure how it would sequester the lead but even if it did it would just expose more lead. Using EDTA does change the discharge profile so it's kind of an all or nothing deal once you use it in a battery. Once a battery has physical damage there is no point in working on it anymore but if it's just sulfation that is purely an electro-chemical process and it should be reversible. It's not that sulfated batteries won't charge. The problem it that it takes forever if you want to prevent boil over while doing so.

John......
« Last Edit: June 13, 2005, 02:47:43 PM by whatsnext »

georgeodjungle

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2005, 06:00:46 PM »
you've got most of it right.

but the battery additve i'm talking about is "cadmium sulfide"

which actually increases capacity and charging absorbtion,

from stock as long as the electrolite is good.

not much,

it's like 1%

you only add like 1/4 cup per gallon.

it's all so used to pump up all kinds of electronic stuff.


so any ways RUN-EM

« Last Edit: June 13, 2005, 06:00:46 PM by georgeodjungle »

Norm

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2005, 07:34:20 AM »
  Like the guys say if you got 'em ...run 'em

why not seperate your batteries into 3 catagories?

  The Pretty Good...the Bad and the Ugly?

  Use the Pretty Good ones you use in a bank...

The Bad ones...you experiment with and maybe

you get them to work half decent and use them

later on in a special bank.

  Even the Ugly ones if any of the cells were

really good you could isolate them ???

    Maybe the last not such a good idea...safety

wise...still one cell could light up a bunch of LEDs much better and longer than some AA rechargable batteries???

       but Work safely around batteries

    Lead....Acid....ugh!

                ( :>) Norm.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2005, 07:34:20 AM by Norm »

georgeodjungle

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Re: Used car batteries
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2005, 05:01:42 PM »
ya. ya.

good idea.

experiment amd maybe post what you got.


this site rocks.

 

« Last Edit: June 14, 2005, 05:01:42 PM by georgeodjungle »