Author Topic: Sail based vertical axis wind turbine  (Read 8093 times)

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jamesjones

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Sail based vertical axis wind turbine
« on: June 15, 2005, 12:51:39 AM »
I've just found this group and it's got some great discussions on it, I was particularly interested in Bob Hunt's wind turbine, but I believe there is another more efficient sail based VAWT, which I (and many others in the past) have invented.


This is the basic design of my VAWT, (top down view):



and you can read more information about it here:


http://sailturbine.envy.nu/


In the picture above, I didn't illustrate the sails themselves properly, they would obviously be curved, and would (I believe) also provide a lift force on the upwind side, as well as a drag force that would also push each blade round the upwind side. This design produces force all the way around the circle, unlike most other (if not all) sail based VAWTs (not that there are many other designs!).

This would overcome some of the unnecessary problems in Bob Hunt's design, as far as I can see.


I think there's going to be a bit of a shakeup in the wind turbine industry when somebody actually does some proper computer modelling of sail based VAWTs, as there's practically zero research into them, yet everybody and his dog just presume they are 'inefficient' without providing much evidence for this.


The problem with blade based HAWTs is that as you scale them up, the tip speed ratio remains the same, so the angular velocity will continue to decrease as the size goes up, so more and more wind is simply passing unused through the huge spaces in between the blades (watch an anemometer mounted at the top of a large turbine and notice how it changes it's speed as each blade passes it - the rest of the time it's receiving the full power of the wind. Then simply look at the huge swept area of the blades and you can clearly see how 90% of the wind is simply passing through unused. (Unless anybody can explain to the contrary). With sail based VAWTs this will never happen, even if the VAWT was a mile high - the sails still intercept far more wind than a HAWT of the same size.


Wind tunnel tests done on HAWTs using sub 10m models are next to useless when it comes to scaling up to the large scale HAWTs that exist today.


A similar VAWT is here:

http://energy.murdoch.edu.au/Solar2004/Proceedings/Wind/Cooper_Paper_Wind.pdf


but uses aerofoils instead of sails, but I think it would be much more powerful using sails. Such is the almost religious nature of modern wind technology that the writers of the paper probably hadn't even considered the possibility of using such archaic technology as sails!

« Last Edit: June 15, 2005, 12:51:39 AM by (unknown) »

jamesjones

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Re: Sail based vertical axis wind turbine
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2005, 07:00:20 PM »
re my other thread about the WindH.O.G. - the WindH.O.G. interests me because of this description on the New Harvest Energy site:

http://www.newharvestenergy.com/details.html

(This is different than the description at

http://www.energytransfercorporation.com/details.html, for some reason).


"The WindHog is a hybrid, drag/lift device that functions as a drag machine when the sails are pushed down wind.  When the sails turn to the 5 o'clock position, the drag sails open (swing out) and become lift sails operating like a sail boat going into the wind.  As the machine continues to turn and the sail reaches the 7 o'clock position, the sail begin to trail and present a very small profile to limit the up wind resistance."


This sounds like it's exactly like my design, but as there are no pictures of the WindH.O.G. anywhere on the site (that I can find) I can't be sure.


The following really intrigues me:


"This machine is very slow turning. It begins to produce electricity at 1 RPM and reaches its maximum power output at about 6 RPM's in top winds."


I can't understand how a drag based (or even lift based) VAWT can turn so slowly, given that its diameter is only 61 feet. (I say 'only' even though that's big enough - just that I would expect it to have to have a much larger diameter to turn so slowly).

« Last Edit: June 14, 2005, 07:00:20 PM by jamesjones »

whatsnext

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Re: Sail based vertical axis wind turbine
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2005, 07:18:52 PM »
One thing. The diagrams showing the static positioning of the sails is somewhat pointless because your sails will never see those wind directions if your device ever starts to turn. Sailors use the term 'apparent wind' to descibe this effect. This is something you might want to think about.

Good Luck, John......
« Last Edit: June 14, 2005, 07:18:52 PM by whatsnext »

Norm

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Re: Sail based vertical axis wind turbine
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2005, 08:42:48 PM »
  Its complexity would lessen it's efficiency

even if by some astonishing breakthru it had

potential of 100% efficiency ...all those chains

and sprockets and the chains stretched pretty

taut so they don't rub against each other...

now you have friction!

....and as Whatsnext has pointed out there will

be no apparent wind as in rigidblade HAWTs

                 ( :>) Norm.

   
« Last Edit: June 14, 2005, 08:42:48 PM by Norm »