Fisher & Paykel News

[domwild]

Hi,

Just spoke to a Larry Minshull of Two Rocks (Western Australia) who managed to get power out of a twin F&P setup. Here are the species:

1. 2 m radius foam filled fibreglass blade, nearly 4 foot (1.2x3.2808) radius or 8 foot dia.
   
400. W at 24V, twin rotors, three blades. He will send me pictures of his setup+blades which I will post once I learn how to do it.
     
     

Sells complete unit (not tower) with charge controller for AUS$975 or US$700.

Sells the three-blades for AUS$360. The twin setup gets around the cogging. Single rotor brings only 200W in his words. Decogging thru filing loses too much power so he did not bother with it. His purchased Hornets do not get around the cog.

I may be dreaming getting something out of four 60" dia. plastic props unless it is a huge storm judging by his comments. OK in my case as I want hot water thru the winter storms and the catabatic (gully) winds in summer.

The twin setup is also being used by www.thebackshed.com/windmill of Oz for reasons of decogging and getting more power out of it.

Those of you trying the F&P's may find this info of interest.

Dominic

[Jerry]

Hi Dominic

I just posted a responce to nweeks diarie of Oct. 4 at 4:48 pm mst.

I posted my point of view on the Hornet blades. I fly a Hornet plus I have several set of Hornet blades I've expirimented with on other genny types.

They're not the blade for the F&P. even the dual F&P you've discribed above.

I guse its time for me to through a set of Jerry blade on my F&P and see how that works?

                         JK TAS Jerry

[commanda]

Does he have a website?

Amanda

[domwild]

Amanda and Jerry,

Thanks for response. He will email photos of setup and blades. Jerry will give us feedback how his blades will perform, that saves us a bit of the learning curve. Larry's blades mean he is also getting good performance at low winds and he is talking of furling at 300RPM.

No, Amanda, he does not have a web site but he will advertise in the Oz magazine "Grass Roots". I gave him the web site of www.thebackshed.com/windmill who is also trying out the dual F&P scheme for more power. But that does need a lathe.

Dominic

[commanda]

The testing I've done with the F&P, whilst far from complete at this stage; and this posting, brings me back to something I speculated about on here a while back.

Playing with BladeCalc & my F&P numbers; you need a large rotor to get the power from the wind, but then the rpm's are too low to get the power out of the F&P. I think Larry's figure's back up what I'm saying. 2 x F&P's and only getting 400 watts.

Automotive camshaft timing belts, very conveniently, come in exactly 2:1 ratio and are cogged as well.

Amanda

[TomW]

Commanda;

Automotive camshaft timing belts, very conveniently, come in exactly 2:1 ratio and are cogged as well.

I have seen this mentioned a few times. My question would be "How long will this last in this application?"

Seems they usually have timing belts listed as a maintenance item for replacement at around 60,000 miles [about 96,000 Km] I see that as about 1,000 hours of hiway miles on the average auto application and that would be something on the order of 41 days of full time use. They are nice tough belts and I know of a few cars with over 100,000 miles on them and never had the belt changed, too.

Anyone have any figures on this? What kind of power can they be trusted to transfer, etc? Apologies if this has been covered and I missed it, too.

Cheers.

TomW

[elvin1949]

tom

harley-davidson uses them a final drive on some of

there bike's.

lot's of power there.

later

elvin

[nack]

60kmile is an engine that gets very hot and leaks oil on the belt.  I have a friend who got 100kmile with one in the final drive position on a Harley (which also leaks oil, but at lower temps, and picks up rocks off the street to chew on - in this case it was rear sprocket failure that eventually motivated replacement - the belt still looked pretty good).  I think running dry and at ambient temp you should be able to get many years of continuous duty.  Note that the life expectancy of a v-belt is also greatly reduced by installing it under a hood.

Speaking of Harley's... if the cam-shaft 1:2 ratio is not for you, look at various motorcycle distributors for primary and final drive replacement parts to get many different ratios.

[commanda]

I think the key here is "heat". Inside an automobile engine is really hot.

I'm planning on using 2, with a dust & rain cover over it. The average power level is relatively low. Also acceleration is much less than in a car, as well as rpm. Mind you, I wouldn't complain if my blades could do 7-8 K rpm. At 1 watt per rpm, 2 F&P's would peak at 16 KW.

Now back to the real world. In this application, I would expect years of service.

Amanda

[TomW]

commanda and others who answered;

Thanks for the info. Good points and taken. Mechanicals are just not my thing.

Cheers.

TomW

[domwild]

Hi friends,

Having printed out most posts on PVC props I have come across a contributor named george k who had a cam belt on his mill. He noticed a stiffness in the belt on very cold mornings on his Amtek setup and no doubt ice on the belt does not help either. Not that we have to worry about that here in Oz unless you live in the ski area.

Dominic

 

[Nando]

FOR THOSE INTERESTED;

Michael Lawley ecoinn@paradise.net.nz website www.ecoinn.co.nz sales a wind mill using a single decogged motor with some standard bought blades producing around 600 or 700 watts.

So check him out and I think that it is cheaper.

Regards

Nando

[domwild]

That is right. I am currently asking him the following:

Is this a decogged F&P with or without floating hub?

And which F&P is the one with 400-700W(10m/sec to 14m/sec)a 60,80 or 100S or P or SP?

Are the blades six Hornetts or others on his photo in the RenNew magazine?

His table in ReNew lists the following for those of you in the USA without the ReNew magazine:

Voltage  Smart Drive Stator Type

12.       60P delta, 80P star, 80SP delta
    
24.       80SP star, 60SP delta
    
48.       100S delta
    
    

Dominic

[domwild]

This is a picture of the mill as promised.

[domwild]

This is a picture of the mill as promised.

[BruceDownunder]

I have put together twin stators and fibreglassed a twin rotor. Not tested them on a tower yet,though.

I also "de-cogged" two stators today -,very easy with a 5 inch angle grinder and quite safe to use, then finish off with a semi fine sanding disc,then varnish.

I also have the "timing belt" gear ,just waiting to set it up . By doing it this way ,you have the advantage of using a strong car hub as the holder for the prop and after that you can set up whatever drive train you wish. I'm thinking even a disc brake set-up on the drive train for shut down ( car air conditioner magnetic clutch is my choice)

Anyhow, one day all this will happen !!!! hope !!

Bruce

[BruceDownunder]

Forgot to show you this

Bruce

[BruceDownunder]

and this ,and that

I tried to post it with the first ,but maybe it took some time to get into my files.

[scoraigwind]

Why not mount the altenators on opposite ends of the shaft, and save all that centring of the rotors and stators?

[BruceDownunder]

hello Hugh.  Did that  a year ago and the pic is in my irc album . I set it up and just turned one stator against theother slightly --it makes a big difference. The drive train could be taken from the middle of the shaft ,or maybe towards one end ,whichever is convenient for mounting a sprockt,pulley or timing belt pulley type .

I don't think the de-cogging ,by grinding the fingers away at the edges is a good thing ---remember,if there is no wind ,there's no usable power- you can have a spinning mill ,but what's the use if the wind has no power to get and keep the thing spinning anyhow.

Just my thoughts,though .

Having fun

Bruce

[ghurd]

I think timing belts transfer a lot of power.

My 150k mile '89 Toyota has the factory belt.

Oh Jeeze. Shouldn't have said that. Knock on wood with crossed fingers holding rabbits foot.