Author Topic: New kind of cogwheel stator for axial flux generator  (Read 22783 times)

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PoLe

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New kind of cogwheel stator for axial flux generator
« on: November 27, 2008, 09:14:27 PM »
I noticed in my engineer final study that normal stator (hugh piggots model) which has wounded coils in series has only 80% performance.

Final study (only in finnish)




In the "cogwheel" stator model performance is better, but it is little of difficult to build. That new stator has more magnetic flux area per round than the old one. (internal resistanse is smaller)




The first I decided to build one phase "cogwheel" stator.
This stator producing about 5V when generator has 60RPM. There is only 9 round copperwire in coil. I think that this stator can handle 100A loads because the copperwire is 5,65mm^2 thick. Cranking by hand I get over 50A.














After this I decided to build 3-phase version. There is 30 round copperwire in one phase. (star connected)











There you can see the stator other side. There is "track" to permanent magnets.











Steeldisc where is 16 pieces 80x20x10mm N42 magnets.











And there is all parts of generator.











Setting permanent magnet to correct places...










And finally all parts together.










This generator producing 80V peak (about 60V RMS) when generator has 150RPM (only 30 round in coil). Airgap is only 10mm. It is possible to get 8mm. Then stator is within 1 Tesla magnetic flux.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axo8v37beM0
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 09:14:27 PM by (unknown) »

Flux

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Re: New kiator
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2008, 03:52:28 PM »
Sorry I couldn't follow all your project results but it is well presented. I would like to see an English translation


The winding you show is normally called a wave winding but your pictures show well enough what you mean.


It does use more of the area with windings compared with the single layer approach but I suspect that your winding density is little better. You wind the bits that are not wound in the single layer winding but you also have longer wire lengths.


Axial machines are difficult to wind with overlapped coils, your method may be slightly easier than with lap coils but only with very thin coils. If you go thicker the overlap bits become awkward.


Your method probably  works best for thin stators and thick magnets where the flux density in the gap is higher.


With certain shapes of magnet the overlapped coil may work out better but my attempts have been little better and don't justify the extra trouble.


With radial designs the overlapped coil arrangement is considerably better but the case is not clear cut for axials. You obviously find it better for your example but if you tried with the same magnets and air gaps as the common machines I am not sure it would be the case.


It is good to see someone trying different ways, I started that way but found that the same results could be got easier for the same cost with single layer windings if you use larger gaps and lower flux density.


Flux

« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 03:52:28 PM by Flux »

hiker

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Re: New kiator
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2008, 04:15:25 PM »
nice work...

did you reverse the leads on the middle phase..

on my car alt rewinds thats what i had to do..

use the start lead for the star point and the end wire for power out..

that is if your using the start leads for power out...
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 04:15:25 PM by hiker »
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PoLe

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Re: New kiator
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2008, 12:56:04 AM »
My English skills are not so good.. :)

I noticed that this kind of stator has smaller inductance than the old one.
I used oscilloscope to make out generators waveform and possible voltage peaks.

Waveform is quite same what was in hugh piggots model, but I didn't see any voltage peaks. Inductance must be quite small in the "cogwheel" stator and losses are also smaller.

In failure situations (ex. cabel loose connection to batteries) voltage peaks doesn't broke diodes any more. You don't need varistories to protect your rectifier.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 12:56:04 AM by PoLe »

tecker

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Re: New kind of cogwheel stator for axial flux gen
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2008, 10:31:48 AM »
Nice ideas here this wave winding has a few mentions on the forum but no builds like this .Looks like you used pins to wind with and flattened the coils bonding each phase . Very cool . I think with this  sized wire, scale down the output to 18 to 20 amps for top end power .In the wave tests I've made a full load bucks pretty hard like a car alternator .  Any other test to follow ?

« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 10:31:48 AM by tecker »

SparWeb

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Re: Wave-Wound axial flux generator
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2008, 12:04:16 PM »
This looks like a great idea.  Thank you for sharing it with us.  Winding the stator this way could actually be easier, with a little practice to refine the technique.  Each phase is more likely to come out with equal resistance and # of turns.  That is very clever to make the track where the magnets pass as thin as possible, yet allowing the cross-overs of the coils to be thick.


I, too, look forward to seeing some more detailed test information!

« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 12:04:16 PM by SparWeb »
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Flux

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Re: New kiator
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2008, 01:30:19 PM »
The inductance rises with the square of the number of turns, so anything that keeps the turns low ( high gap flux density) will lower the inductance.


Apart from your rectifier spike worry I really don't think inductance is any problem. These machines never reach the state where leakage inductance is an issue and this is not the same thing as coil inductance anyway.


If you can end up with a winding with lower resistance for a given terminal voltage you are on to a good thing but in general it seems to pay to work the magnets near the BH max point rather than use small gaps with high flux density. You can always get a better machine by using more magnet.


Flux

« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 01:30:19 PM by Flux »

electrondady1

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Re: Wave-Wound axial flux generator
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2008, 08:22:33 PM »
this is a wonderful accomplishment  PoLe
congratulations.
this is sitting on the shelf at my shop .
a want to make it two phase.
then i'll pour in the resin .





« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 08:22:33 PM by electrondady1 »

hiker

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Re: Wave-Wound axial flux generator
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2008, 11:20:50 PM »




         check out eds site--hes built a few of those wave wound alts..

                    http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/alt_from_scratch.htm
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 11:20:50 PM by hiker »
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hiker

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Re: Wave-Wound axial flux generator
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2008, 02:28:59 AM »
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 02:28:59 AM by hiker »
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PoLe

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Re: Wave-Wound axial flux generator
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2008, 08:32:36 AM »
One more thing..

It is better to use an oblong permanent magnets, because in that way you get more performance of your generator. Magnetic flux area will increase and "empty" copper wire areas will minimize. My magnets are 80mm x 20mm x 10mm. I think that I will make a new one.. something like 100mm x 20mm x 10mm.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 08:32:36 AM by PoLe »

Boss

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cogwheel stator for axial flux generator
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2008, 08:53:44 AM »
Very inspiring work. We finished the electrical in our new shop a couple of days ago, once the floor is sealed we start building stators, I'm excited. I've been away from the forum since Spring in New Mexico while we build our new workshop. We do not have the experience to try anything like this, we'll start with the tried and true windings, nevertheless this is neat to see.  
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 08:53:44 AM by Boss »
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cdog

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Re: New kind of cogwheel stator
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2008, 04:32:12 PM »
Would it be a good idea to try this with fanman's type of stator arrangement?

Cdog.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 04:32:12 PM by cdog »