Wind powered electron pump online

[cardamon]

I finally got my wind powered electron pump going after two years of planning and trying to find the time.  Here is a brief summary with some pictures:

Tower:

After mulling over a myriad of options, I decided to make a tower out of a utility pole.  The two main reasons I chose this approach was cost, and strength - I wanted a sizable observation deck/maintenance platform on the top.  I obtained a good used 45 foot pole for $100.  I had to transport it 30 miles, see picture below.  All went well.

I started thinking that I needed more height so I got another 28 foot pole and joined them end to end with a piece of 10 inch steel pipe. for a total of 73 feet, minus 2 feet in the ground for a total height to the crows nest of about 71 feet AGL.

Once I had the poles joined and the crows nest built, I jackhammered four two foot deep holes into the rock; three for the guy anchors and one for the butt of the pole.  Then I was ready to try to hoist it up.  I had four ropes, two sets of two that went over pulleys 30 feet up in two trees that were about 20 feet apart and 20 feet 'in back' of the tower.  After going around the pulleys, the ropes connected to the tower at the steel coupling.  These two sets of ropes formed a V so the tower would not tip side to side.  I applied force with come-alongs, the two ropes in each set allowing me to pull with another come along and then retie when I ran out of travel.  The force to start the tower I calculated at about 7000 pounds total, quite a bit.  The trees were cabled back so they held fine.  I could not quite get the tower started, probably could have done it if there was no rope stretch eating up my travel, so I pulled the top of the tower vertically up a bit from an overhead tree.  This improved my pull angle enough that the ropes could take over and up she went.  This picture is of the point where the ropes take over, after the vertical lift.

Once I had the tower vertical, I finished the anchors. They are made from pieces of RR track.  Once I installed the cables, turnbuckles, etc, I took the temp ropes off and tightened and tweaked a bit and all was sound.

Winter was beating me so I skipped decking the platform for now, and also only put the turbine on a 20 foot piece of 3.5 sch 40 pipe; 5 feet was below the platform so 15+71 gives a total height of about 86 feet hub height.  Ill probably go another 20 feet when spring comes.  Note the 'ships mast ladder' on the left side of the tower for easy access to the top.  Also a few views from the top:

The mill I purchased.  It is a SWWP whisper 200 high voltage (240).  There is a 1400 foot #10 copper wire run down the mountain to my dome.  There it hits a three phase transformer and rectifier bridge and then feeds my 12 v system.  I got the nice heat sinks and schottkys off of ebay, all for under $80.  Note the funky buss bar arrangement for my negative DC rail because I didn't have reverse polarity diodes.

Low wind performance, not surprisingly, could be better. I have to take some measurements and will probably mess around with a cut in relay and star/delta switch.  I have seen a brief 72 amps at the batteries and see sustained currents of 55 amps.  The site was proposed for development by big wind, so it should be a phenomenal site.  I don't currently have a system monitor, but I have been heating lots of water

[SparWeb]

Worth it just for the view, man!

Sounds like the big wind energy project is you.

Were you a boatswain in a previous life?

[Warrior]

Nice set up!! 86 feet is too scary for me...and the ship mast ladder, wow, I would probably freeze half way up. Be carefull with it, being exposed to sun & rain, it can rott.

Question regarding the system. Is the genny hard-wired to the transformers? Meaning no controller or cut in relay etc, before it?

Keep us posted on the progress.

[cardamon]

I may have been a boatswain in a previous life - ever since I was little I wanted my own ships mast ladder.  This was the perfect opportunity to actually implement it.

The genny is currently hard wired to the transformer which is hard wired to the rectifier which is hard wired to the batteries.  Diversion controllers also connect directly to batts.  I may play around with a cut in relay and star delta switch for improved performance.  Actually when I said in the OP that low wind performance could be better, this is just an assumption.  It does not seem to have much trouble starting from a dead stop, but then again I cant see it from the house so I have no idea what it or the winds are doing.  I need to go up on the tower with a wind speed meter and figure out what speed winds are required to make it start.

 Regarding the star/delta switch, that may be beneficial because the rpm at cut in does seem rather high.  Here is my math on it:  The transformer has a total 20 times step down ratio (thats with the 1.732 factor because of the star-primary, delta secondary connections), so that means I need about 210 volts to start charging (taking into account the approx 1.35 voltage increase after rectification).  If I recall correctly, unloaded the mill puts out .5 volt/rpm so that would mean charging starts at 420 RPM.  That  seems really high to me, perhaps I am incorrect on my volts/rpm figure?

[SparWeb]

Avast, such a banshee wail 'ud scare 'way pirates with even the blackest o' hearts!

No swabbie nor inspector 'ud dare jibe ye mainsheet.

That's a roaring fast cut-in speed - the mill is what, 12 feet diameter?  

I don't see anything wrong with your math, yet, but there's not much info to go on.  Do you have a shut-down system?

It looks possible to re-wind that transformer with a different step-down ratio to get your speed under control.

Since you have a means of getting close to that mill, a tachometer shouldn't be too hard to rig up, taking some safety precautions, to measure just how fast it is turning.  Have a cell phone with you to call in numbers to a friend who's watching the meters 1/4 mile away, and correlate the numbers so you can see the big picture.  You wouldn't catch me doing something like that, by the way, but you seem crazy enough!  :^)

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

Since there's a transformer you can do a delta-wye conversion either to step up or step down.  You may not need any rewinds.

Since your cutin is too high, try wiring the primary of the step-down transformer in delta and the secondary in Y.

Note that there's no reason not to hook a Y alternator to a delta transformer winding set.  (Though it may cause the transformer to saturate in high winds if it wasn't rated for the resulting somewhat higher current.)

[oztules]

Without a frequency switch, I would opt for star in the secondary first, as doing delta on the primary may upset the impedance match so that startup of the prop may suffer. (looks too much like a short perhaps in delta??). It apparently starts turning ok as it is without complicated starting circuitry.

If the trannies secondaries don't heat up too much in star.. then good, otherwise you still have some winding window to fill up for the secondaries.

Serious thrill seeker... I couldn't even watch as someone else climbed that.... but the view is certainly worth it. Thats for sure.

..........oztules

[Electron Pump]

  Man that is soooooo cool. I also like the name. I chose it as my user name on the board here.

  I just got my genny off the test stand and up on its tower this weekend. I'm way up at the dizzing heights of twenty-one feet. And I still was a cry baby when it came to stabbing the genny in the top of the tower. My hats off to you.

  Might I ask what you think the over all cost of your system came to? Where your at, is the genny your only source of power? What do you have to run with it?

  Good luck man.

[TheCasualTraveler]

Shiver me timbers!

[cardamon]

That a good question about cost of the system, I had not ever added everything up but have been meaning to, so here goes:

45. ' Pole: 100
    
28. ' pole: free
    
6. ' 10" sch 40 pipe: 250
   
   

RR track: found it

crows nest materials:  200

guy stuff, hardware, welding: 350

re-bar and concrete: 150

genny: 1700

transformer 1000

rectifier setup 150

1000. ' 10-2 UF cable: 350
      
400. ' 10-2 UF cable: had it
     
     

misc heavy gauge wire for BOS: had it

two diversion controllers: 300

rope: 250

I did all the work myself, except for some welding and three extra hands during the first (aborted) tower lift.  I don't really want to know how many of my hours went into it:)

That comes to about 4800; sounds about right, off the top of my head I would have said 5k.  There are no batteries figured in because it is tied into my existing 240 watt solar system with 2 l-16's.  I really need a bigger battery bank now!

A bit more on the transformer.  It is from SWWP.  At first I thought I could save a bunch of money and set up my own bank, but after pricing them out and considering some derating for frequency, and not having free ones lying around, it didn't work out that way so I just bought theirs.  As is from the factory it is set up wye primary, delta secondary, so yeah i think changing primary to delta would be the first thing to try.  IF it was delta-delta then I would of course just have the turns ratio as a step down which is about 12.  So that would begin charging at about 250 rpm.  That still seems wicked high, is it?  What is typical rpm at cut in for a machine this size, and what speed wind do you guys think I should shoot for cut in at?  Say maybe 8 mph?  I know not much energy down there but a dozen watts could run my fridge.

A nicer view of the ladder:

[KevinV]

I am not sure what kind of rope you used, but you should DEFINITELY look into proper care for it.  Perhaps linseed oil and pine tar would be good start.  That's what was used on the old rope rigged schooners and such.

UV rays will definitely take a toll on whatever untreated rope you use and moisture will attack many types of rope.

I am not pretending to be an expert or have all of your answers but I am concerned that if you don't give your rope ladder proper care and maintenance, that it can let you down. (pun intended).

Perhaps you could use a safety rope when you use the ladder?

Sweet setup!

I'm jealous.

[SparWeb]

...What is typical rpm at cut in for a machine this size, and what speed wind do you guys think I should shoot for cut in at?  Say maybe 8 mph?

http://www.windenergy.com/products/whisper_200.htm

I had to look up the Whisper 200, so I included the link for reference.

The diameter is 9 feet, so it would be nice to cut-in at about 150 RPM, but those are skinny blades, probably designed for much higher TSR than I expect... say 200 RPM?

While 8 mph is not so good for many of us, I expect it's fine for you, considering your site and the height of your tower.

The Whisper 200 charts don't really give the info needed to guestimate this stuff, anyway.  You should be more concerned with what it does at the top end.  See if SWWP will tell you anything about maximum prop speeds, and describe the electrical connections you have made.  You wouldn't want a warranty issue denied in the future, because of something you could have fixed today.

[cardamon]

Yeah I really need to hook up a tach so I can really tell what is going on.  200-ish rpm for cut in sounds reasonable and thats about what I would get if I changed the primary to delta.  Note that the connections I have now, wye primary and delta secondary, is the way it came from the factory.  I never really made that clear that it was all prewired that way.  Also note I am not using the whisper controller - the high voltage version doesnt come with a controller and it was cheaper to make my own rectifier and besides I want to utilize the diverted power.

[Ungrounded Lightning Rod]

Sure.  (Didn't realize you were doing jerry or delta on the secondary.)

Yes, Y->Delta to Y->Y first, then maybe delta->Y second if you still need a boost.

A nice thing about transformers:  Each one gives you two more "gears" of Delta-Y switching.  B-)

If you do want to boost further than by switching the secondary to Y, don't assume delta primary on the transformer will keep your mill from starting below cutin speed until you try it.  If nothing else it's at the far end of the resistance of the drop, so circulating currents are attenuated by more resistance than if the delta was at the mill.

(Also, though this probably doesn't apply to you:  Don't assume delta at the mill will keep it from starting below cutin winds until you try it, either.)

[cardamon]

ULR:

"Yes, Y->Delta to Y->Y first, then maybe delta->Y second if you still need a boost."

So as is, I have wye primary, delta secondary. How preferable so you think it is to so a Y-Y instead of D-D (I know they are the same 'gear')?  The reason I ask is if I mess with the primary side, I only have to switch an amp or two (whatever current is at change point), where if I change the secondary, I have to switch dozens of amps.  I havent priced out relays, but assuming cheaper and easier with the former...

[Warrior]

Hi,

I'm not sure about the cut in rpm, but on Mick Sagrillo's & Ian Woofenden's "2007 Wind Turbine Buyer's Guide", the Whisper 200 spins at a max of 1100 rpm.. The high speed makes the alternator smaller and cheaper. They use ferrite blocks for the magnets. The Whisper 500 spins at a maximum ear splitting 800-900 rpm, and this is a 15 FT machine!!!

Also, in Micks Apples & Oranges 2002 article, the specs say that the SWWP H-80 (now Whisper 200) is designed with a 13.4 TSR.

So at a 7mph cut-in & doing the math, a ballpark figure for cut-in rpm would be 295 - 300 rpm using the formula:

rpm = 60 x wind speed [m/s] x TSR / Pi x Diam. [mt]

They are very fast wind turbines...

[cardamon]

Thanks, very good info.  

[neilho]

Here's a link to the factory transformer wiring configuration. The manual is for the 500 but the wiring is the same as for the 200/H80 (according to the factory).

http://www.windenergy.com/documents/manuals/0023_REV_C_w500_maual.pdf

See page 12 for transformer connections.

The factory transformer has multiple windings in the secondary, so can be configured a number of ways. All the recommended primary configurations are wye, 12V secondary is delta with two sets of windings in parallel, 24 V is 2 sets of windings in parallel in wye, 36V is the same windings in series in delta, then the 48V configuration is windings in series in wye.

I think that one possibility for your system would be the wye/wye intended for 24V, which would certainly load the turbine more than the 12V configuration. Don't know if the machine would be able to handle the increased load or not, but it would be easy enough to test.  

Quote:

What is typical rpm at cut in for a machine this size, and what speed wind do you guys think I should shoot for cut in at?  Say maybe 8 mph?

Seems like you're limited to what the transformer will allow. If it will start with a Delta primary, great. If not, then the wye primary is your only other option and you'll have to take what you can get for cutin speed. Skinny blades with a high TSR make for hard starting.

Neil